Genetics Question

Mylied

Crowing
9 Years
Mar 12, 2012
3,507
5,770
492
Middle Georgia
I have showgirls and frizzled cochins. I wanted frizzled showgirls. Every chick that hatches from the showgirl/cochin combo has pink skin. I know showgirls have a parent with black skin and one with pink. Then cochins have two pink skinned parents. Is the black recessive or can I eventually get a frizzled showgirl with black skin? I've hatched a good couple handfuls so far. They are usually frizzled and half the time have naked neck, just wondering about skin color. Thanks!
 

FishMtFarm

Emu whisperer
Jan 2, 2017
2,235
4,195
367
Lake Pleasant, NY
Sounds like you need to take your naked neck offspring and bred them to a showgirl to get your black skin in the next generation. I have bred serama to silkies and got all black skinned babies even tho serama have pink. What color naked neck silkie is the parent to these experimentals?
 

Mylied

Crowing
9 Years
Mar 12, 2012
3,507
5,770
492
Middle Georgia
Sounds like you need to take your naked neck offspring and bred them to a showgirl to get your black skin in the next generation. I have bred serama to silkies and got all black skinned babies even tho serama have pink. What color naked neck silkie is the parent to these experimentals?
They are white showgirl hen to white frizzled cochin roo. Maybe breeding back to a silkie would be good so they don't become too naked?
 

FishMtFarm

Emu whisperer
Jan 2, 2017
2,235
4,195
367
Lake Pleasant, NY
Yes and I think your getting the white skin because of the white feathering. Especially if they are split to paint, then you get that pink skin pigment break thru. When I do experimentals I use a dark feather base. Then your more likely to get a split with black and pink skin.
 

Mylied

Crowing
9 Years
Mar 12, 2012
3,507
5,770
492
Middle Georgia
Yes and I think your getting the white skin because of the white feathering. Especially if they are split to paint, then you get that pink skin pigment break thru. When I do experimentals I use a dark feather base. Then your more likely to get a split with black and pink skin.
Ok. I have a black showgirl roo with a red frizzled cochin but haven't hatched any of her eggs yet.
 

Sneebsey

Songster
Apr 7, 2017
803
1,433
236
Shropshire, UK
Whilst @FishMtFarm is correct that white-feathering can have an effect on dermal melanin, this effect is only present in the shanks, rather than the actual skin of the bird; it does not generally affect fibromelanistic birds to much of a degree, other than a blue cast to the legs.

Fibromelanism is however affected by the pigment inhibitor found in white-shanked birds; it is sex-linked, so if the mother is the one with the inhibitor, only her sons will possess it, whilst if the father is, all offspring will.

It's also possible that your Showgirl cockerel is impure for fibro; if he has a mulberry colour to his face and wattles (like the Silkie mix in my avatar), this is likely the case.

I agree that breeding back to a fibro bird should produce at least some who lack the inhibitor and will display as black-skinned, or at least mulberry birds.
 

FishMtFarm

Emu whisperer
Jan 2, 2017
2,235
4,195
367
Lake Pleasant, NY
Whilst @FishMtFarm is correct that white-feathering can have an effect on dermal melanin, this effect is only present in the shanks, rather than the actual skin of the bird; it does not generally affect fibromelanistic birds to much of a degree, other than a blue cast to the legs.

Fibromelanism is however affected by the pigment inhibitor found in white-shanked birds; it is sex-linked, so if the mother is the one with the inhibitor, only her sons will possess it, whilst if the father is, all offspring will.

It's also possible that your Showgirl cockerel is impure for fibro; if he has a mulberry colour to his face and wattles (like the Silkie mix in my avatar), this is likely the case.

I agree that breeding back to a fibro bird should produce at least some who lack the inhibitor and will display as black-skinned, or at least mulberry birds.

That’s why I say if the paint gene is involved because that can have an effect on skin pigment. Paints can have spotty skin on the body and not have just the shanks spotty or light.
 

Sneebsey

Songster
Apr 7, 2017
803
1,433
236
Shropshire, UK
That’s why I say if the paint gene is involved because that can have an effect on skin pigment. Paints can have spotty skin on the body and not have just the shanks spotty or light.

Dominant White will likely allow some dermal melanin to leak through where there are areas of black plumage, however this is more due to the extra eumelanin found in Extended Black and Birchen based birds which is essentially 'cancelled out' by the addition of a eumelanin dilution gene such as Dom White.

I consider that fibromelanism is generally strong enough to withstand this, however you have had a different experience with it. I would love to see pictures of the spotting you describe; I'm curious as to how it must display on a fibro bird.
 

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