German New Hampshire

[Barred Rocker]

of course I'm no expert but I'd agree Chris that his tail seems a little high but he looks young, do you think he might level out a little later?

 

[banjoejoe4783]

Hey guy....thought that I would post a few pics of some of my older roos. The first 2 are almost 5 months old and the last one is almost 7 months old. I think the tail angle if way to high on the first two. Any thoughts on this?







Thanks for looking....

Chris

they all seen to have a nice body i would agree that roo in the first pic has a to high of an agel on his tail the second roo i would not be so quick to say i would give him time to fill out more the third pic the roo is missing his mane sickel feathers and you won't know for shure just how high he will carry his tail

but i would not cull bacause of tail alone there are a lot of other things to consider like size, shape,and color are the MOST inportant but all of you boys look to have good color . then when im culling lenth of legs body and head and neck are my next and in the picks you posted roo #2 has better proportion roo #1 his legs and neck look to be to long " but this may be becaus he is young " and roo #3 has a nice body but looks alitte off in proportion but this may be the photo

judging by what i see i like roo #2 best roo#3 next even through roo #2 has a tail "brake" i like him in the long run if you talk to 4 diferant breeders they will tell you diferant things that are more inportant to them this is why diferant lines from diferant breeders will be diferant because one breeder will breed for body first and the other may have breed for size and another for color or head or tail ex ex ex in the end you are the only one with the power on chozing witch way you want to breed you need to decide what is more inportent to YOU size-color-head-tail-legs-porportioal-ex ex and somtimes you have to compromise because it is not wise to cull basted on one trate if the rest of the bird in not sound for exampel if 1 of you roos matures out to be a lot biger tham the rest has a great body and head but carrys is tail a littel high but is supereer to the others in all other ways i would keep the bird with the size and work on the tail in the next generation

by the way GOOD LOOKING COCKERELS

 

[kathyinmo]

I don't see a tail break in #2 at all. #2 appears to be of good size. ???
Personally, I do cull for the tail angle being too high.

I keep this in mind when culling, as well...........

Quote:

 

[Chris Herzog]

Cockerel # 1 is the largest and to me very proportional in size. I like everything about him except his tail angle.

#2 is just slightly smaller than #'s 1 and 3. His tail angle IMO is not as bad as 1 but not as good as 3's. His tail is also not as full as 1's

#3 I think has the best tail angle but his tail is not full like 1 or 2. I'm not sure or not, if it's because his tail is not full but something just looks off to me with him and I can't yet put my finger on it.

I also have 4 more cockerels to pick from that are 3 or so months old and also 10 chicks to young for me to sex at this point. I'm hoping that I'm able to pick 3 nice boys to keep as breeders for next year but at the same time I don't want to get rid of anyone to soon nor hang on to anyone for no reason. Choosing who stays and who goes is a total pain in the butt! lol!!! No pun intended!!!!

Chris

 

[catdaddyfro]

of course I'm no expert but I'd agree Chris that his tail seems a little high but he looks young, do you think he might level out a little later?

tail angle does not change with age it is what it is from the beginning. I agree with Mrs. Kathy, you should be culling out high tail angles now, along with dropped wing, split wing, wry tail, pinched tail, ect on these NH. They are far enough along in disposition to do so. There's plenty coming out now to do this sort of culling now. You don't need to keep producing more bad traits. If you were starting out with hatchery stock or a very rare type(breed) and trying to improve them I'd say yeah you gotta use what you got, but in this case there should be enough around to choose good breeders from, especially with all that have them here on this board. Don't get the cart before the horse, its easy to undo what's already done and a lot harder to fix than mess up.

I have one NH pullet with dropped wing I will not be putting her in the breeding program even though I only have 5. I would rather just use the ones with proper form than have to weed out the culls later on. That's my story and I'm sticking to it. These are serious breed stock not just average everyday barn-yard chickens. If you do it right the end results will pay off, jumping into this too fast for the quick monies(fad is going on) and producing 2nd class birds will backfire eventually! JMHO I shall step down from the soap box now.
G'day

Jeff

 

[kathyinmo]

I have been looking for some pictures I have, but am having no luck. They are on my old computer. Anyway, I have great examples of poor tail angles, and even, "tail break." I will keep looking elsewhere.

I feel I can make this comment, since the birds I am talking about ALL come from my stock.... This is my opinion:
Luanne (cpartist) has culled well, and I really like her keepers.
banjoejoe stock..... Don't know if I have seen them all, but I don't particularly care for the ones I have seen.

 

[Chris Herzog]

I have been looking for some pictures I have, but am having no luck. They are on my old computer. Anyway, I have great examples of poor tail angles, and even, "tail break." I will keep looking elsewhere.

I feel I can make this comment, since the birds I am talking about ALL come from my stock.... This is my opinion:
Luanne (cpartist) has culled well, and I really like her keepers.
banjoejoe stock..... Don't know if I have seen them all, but I don't particularly care for the ones I have seen.

That would be great.

Chris

 

[banjoejoe4783]

 

[Chris Herzog]

tail angle does not change with age it is what it is from the beginning. I agree with Mrs. Kathy, you should be culling out high tail angles now, along with dropped wing, split wing, wry tail, pinched tail, ect on these NH. They are far enough along in disposition to do so. There's plenty coming out now to do this sort of culling now. You don't need to keep producing more bad traits. If you were starting out with hatchery stock or a very rare type(breed) and trying to improve them I'd say yeah you gotta use what you got, but in this case there should be enough around to choose good breeders from, especially with all that have them here on this board. Don't get the cart before the horse, its easy to undo what's already done and a lot harder to fix than mess up.

I have one NH pullet with dropped wing I will not be putting her in the breeding program even though I only have 5. I would rather just use the ones with proper form than have to weed out the culls later on. That's my story and I'm sticking to it. These are serious breed stock not just average everyday barn-yard chickens. If you do it right the end results will pay off, jumping into this too fast for the quick monies(fad is going on) and producing 2nd class birds will backfire eventually! JMHO I shall step down from the soap box now.
G'day

Jeff

Jeff, I agree with everything you said. I'm not looking to sell anything to anyone nor jump on anyone's band wagon. That's not in my interest at all. I just want to learn to do this the right way from the get go and nothing more. I have a friend looking for some yard art and I'm thinking about giving him #1 with 3 hatchery NH hens that I have. That's the main reason I posted the pics.... To see if he was on his way out from what others had to say about him that's all. I actually like him the most but would not breed him because of his tail. Some of these birds will be going to freezer camp but out of the 30 German New Hamps that I currently own, I plan on getting down to say.... 3 males and 6 hens by maybe July. I hope that with 30 birds I find three males that are keepers but if not...I have other avenues.

Chris

 

[cpartist]

Hi Chris

You are getting some good advice here, but remember it is not always easy to judge from photos and ultimately you will need to make your final choices on what you see in person. From your comments I believe you have the eye for this and I think you are looking at the right things. It is also hard to judge birds of different ages which is why I am going to do one big hatch of these to pick my second generation from, rather than hatching a few willy nilly....so I can compare apples to apples. Anyway, here is my 2 cents which is worth about that

# 1...correct on tail angle, it will likely get worse if anything. I think you can safely get rid of him now and never look back. # 2 is likely going to have a too high tail angle as well, but he has a nice full chest and head/neck area. If his body to tail transition is fairly smooth even with a too high angle, you can use him with lower tail angle hens. # 3 has a very nice top line. I would not worry about the fullness of the tail...that can and will change. What bothers be about # 3 is his chest appears to be "cut in". It could be the way he is standing, which is why up close and personal is better. Also, at 7 months, I'd expect to see a much wider head/neck area.

7 months old is when I made my final cuts. I got down to 3 and had my eye on this boy for the longest time...he was just so wide at 7 months:

He did not make the ultimate cut because of his too high tail angle, but I am keeping him around to make sex links with Delaware girls.
Despite the tail, he was a fast growing beefy boy. Notice the width of the head/neck compared to the 7 month old above.

These are the two that that made it into breeding pens, pictured at the same age:

Much better tail angles. This was really important to me as I am using some higher tailed females I normally wouldn't because they have good hackle ticking which is lacking in some of the German line.

Weight is the last thing I look at. Looking at the 3 above at 7 months the first one was clearly wider and heavier. When I weighed them at 10 months all three were within a few ounces of each other. By then, they had been separated and there was no competition between them. I DO look for early indication of size in juvies. I want to see wide set legs and a back that does not taper to the rear. IMO, a nice wide head/neck area is a good early indicator.

It is great you have so many to work with! You will not end up with one perfect bird. The best you can hope for is to be mindful of what you need going forward to offset any faults. That may mean keeping one with a higher tail angle that is otherwise good for type, and another that is not the best for size, but has a good top line.