Getting free produce - is more protein necessary?

[Compost King]

@OasisVerde Since you do not have the deep rich soil I am blessed with my way of just plopping it on the ground attracting worms might not be ideal. I don't know the reason why you want them in the greenhouse when Texas Hill Country doesn't get bitter cold in winter and the worms seem to do fine provided the bins or beds are not frozen solid. Greenhouse space is a valuable commodity and worms might be a waste of space. I tend to keep any worm bins in the shade all year around heat is the only issue that causes problems in my climate in NC.

if I were you I would have a raised bed full of bedding or soil for worms to basically live in, then I would place bins on top of that. Whether you do it in the greenhouse or not is up to you but I wouldn't waste greenhouse space on anything that does fine in your climate.

 

[NewFlockOnTheBlock]

Except that chickens and humans are different. Any animal keeper needs to be aware of the needs of their animals, and the needs of chickens are well understood. It is also understood that if the nutrition of chickens is deficient then there are consequences to the health of the animal (as there are consequences for humans that have poor/deficient diets too). Anyone wanting eggs from their chickens will want to be sure to provide the nutrition needed for flock health and strong/good quality eggs. A layer feed is often 16% protein, considered the minimum for chicken laying health. Often it is recommended to move to a higher protein feed for molt or when there is feather-picking in a flock. So, yes we can be and should be mindful of the daily nutritional needs of the flock. Good for the OP to ask since they are trying to maintain a healthy flock.

I do actually supplement protein year-round, particularly during molting and in cold weather. And, based on the advice of a few people on this forum, I just switched from layer feed to a slightly higher protein grower feed, at least for the winter (I may just keep them on grower permanently, not sure yet).

What I question, when it comes to feeding chickens and other domestic animals/pets, is the need to be super-precise with nutrients on a day-to-day basis. I can't help but wonder if the pet food/animal feed industry is selling this idea to us. Remember when pet food companies were promoting dog and cat kibble at one time because it supposedly helped clean pets' teeth? In fact, it turned out that wet food was preferable to kibble as it is less processed and contains more appropriate levels of moisture.

I absolutely agree that a deficient or unbalanced diet has negative consequences, for both animals and humans. However, animals are arguably even more adaptable and resilient than humans when it comes to adjusting and self-correcting their diets. It is only in recent decades that we adopted this scientific approach to feeding a certain percent of protein, fat, etc. For thousands of years, chickens (and pigs, and dogs) ate the scraps from our tables - and they, or more precisely, their descendants, are still around, or else we would not be having this discussion. As I wrote above, my chickens "tell" me what they need when they turn up their noses at lettuce in the summer but scarf it down in the winter, or when they eat less feed in the summer, preferring to chase after crickets or munch on clover.

 

[Acre4Me]

I do actually supplement protein year-round, particularly during molting and in cold weather. And, based on the advice of a few people on this forum, I just switched from layer feed to a slightly higher protein grower feed, at least for the winter (I may just keep them on grower permanently, not sure yet).

What I question, when it comes to feeding chickens and other domestic animals/pets, is the need to be super-precise with nutrients on a day-to-day basis. I can't help but wonder if the pet food/animal feed industry is selling this idea to us. Remember when pet food companies were promoting dog and cat kibble at one time because it supposedly helped clean pets' teeth? In fact, it turned out that wet food was preferable to kibble as it is less processed and contains more appropriate levels of moisture.

I absolutely agree that a deficient or unbalanced diet has negative consequences, for both animals and humans. However, animals are arguably even more adaptable and resilient than humans when it comes to adjusting and self-correcting their diets. It is only in recent decades that we adopted this scientific approach to feeding a certain percent of protein, fat, etc. For thousands of years, chickens (and pigs, and dogs) ate the scraps from our tables - and they, or more precisely, their descendants, are still around, or else we would not be having this discussion. As I wrote above, my chickens "tell" me what they need when they turn up their noses at lettuce in the summer but scarf it down in the winter, or when they eat less feed in the summer, preferring to chase after crickets or munch on clover.

That’s great you are feeding flock enough protein. The OP was concerned about giving too much extra produce, and maybe unwittingly not giving them enough of everything else they need, like protein. Yes, it is important that we have the knowledge of what is appropriate nutrition for the animals, thanks to science. If we want mega-meat chickens then breed+feed combination makes all the difference. Same with egg production, and this is due to the scientific knowledge of animal nutrition. I don’t think most BYCers are actually analyzing the daily rations they give their chickens, but do rely on that scientific data that tells us overall dietary requirements. Chickens don't overeat as a rule. Therefore, if they have food of any kind they will eat it, and it needs to be nutritionally sufficient for their health (and purpose).

Although way-back-when animals and people survived despite a lack of a scientifically balanced diet, but I've also learned that a whole lot more died young and some died from nutritional deficiencies. There are BYCers that want to only free range, but often still provide feed on a daily basis. Throwing out kitchen scraps would also result in nutritional deficiencies over time as that would be human kitchen scraps of food not deemed edible by the human family, and would vary widely day by day.

Your comment on pet food is interesting. I would think pet food companies would actually try to convince us that wet food is better than dry because it is a lot more expensive on a per serving basis and contains that very inexpensive, but heavy ingredient: water. Recently we adopted a kitten from a shelter, so it is a new experience shopping for cat food. Let me tell you there are some amazingly expensive and specialty varieties of cat food (cat food bisque anyone? yes, that is a few bits of cat food surrounded by a smooth, thin, liquid broth), and I haven't even looked at the "raw" type or frozen cat food! I've been equally interested in reading the labels as quite a few of the wet foods contain as low as 8% protein, which is low within the world of cat food.

In the end, I'm glad to have the scientific knowledge of what my chickens (and kitten) need to eat on a regular basis for health, and for good quality eggs, and quality muscle when we grow meat birds.

 

[Shadrach]

What I question, when it comes to feeding chickens and other domestic animals/pets, is the need to be super-precise with nutrients on a day-to-day basis. I can't help but wonder if the pet food/animal feed industry is selling this idea to us.

Very tactfully put.
In more direct language it's a crock of ****.
There is so much nonsense written about the correct diet for chickens on the Internet that it beggars belief.
If the only 10% non commercial feed rule was vital to a chickens health one would assume that all the free range chickens should have dropped dead by now.
The feed guidelines and the feeds themselves and the recommended amounts may be relevant to chickens that aren’t able to forage, that is, those kept contained.
It probably isn’t a great idea to feed what is called scratch in the US as the main feed component just like it isn’t a good idea for humans to live off ready made meals or liquid diets all their lives.
I’m more concerned about the chickens here eating too much of the commercial feed rather than what they forage.

 

[Folly's place]

Sorry to disagree with this 'it's all fine' approach to feeding modern livestock. There's a huge difference between an 'old time' chicken, and a modern laying hen, who will produce 300+ eggs per year! She will do this at the expense of her health and survival, and needs to eat a good balanced ration. LOTS of $$$ has been spent figuring out a diet that will do this' in a cost-effective way.
The same is true for dairy cows, who produce over 100 pounds of milk per day.
There's also a difference between us average humans, and elite marathon runners, for example.
'Free rang' is another topic that's overused too. My farm field, barn, horse and cattle feed and stuff, and woodlot, all visited by my chickens, is not SE Asian jungle, and isn't a suburban grass lot either. Never mind drought, desert, or snow cover.
So, I know that the balanced commercial diet fed to my chickens is complete, and then they get some extra stuff too.
Cat food! What's 'natural'? Whole mice, gerbils, rabbits, etc. Or, commercial diets with meat proteins, balanced out for kitties. I don't buy canned unless totally necessary for that cat!
Mary

 

[Red-Stars-in-RI]

Personally, if I were considering buying something to supplement my birds protein, I'd look at real meat over cat food or meal worms. Just looking at Walmart's web site, cheap "wet" cat food is like 7 cents an ounce, or $1.12 a lb. Mealworms aren't cheap, either. Last week I saw turkey at the supermarket for 39 cents a pound, and the local stores around here sometimes sell chicken for 99 cents a lb.

The cheapest and most efficient protein supplement plan likely would have been to buy a bunch of cheap turkeys, cook one every two weeks and eat what you want off of it, then make broth with what's left. When making broth, I cook a carcass in the crock pot for 24 hours and afterwards the bones are brittle enough to crush between your fingers. Make yourself a nice soup with the broth and feed the solids to the chickens.

Feeding this way, I think you'd be in turkey sandwiches for a week, then soup for another, with a pretty good pile of "protein supplement" for the flocks, as well.

Kind of makes me wish I had more room in my freezer (it's full of half a pig and several gallons of homemade apple cider).

 

[Folly's place]

Cost effective? I think that buying a higher quality food for them is still the easiest and most cost and time effective plan.
Mary

 

[CanadaEh]

Hi! We have a local store that’s donating their “old” produce to us for our chickens, who are LOVING it, but it made me wonder if I need to somehow up their protein intake. I use purina layer feed, and we get the produce 2-3 times a week. I’m sure since those days their protein ratio would be low, I should supplement, but with what? Cat food? I want something that’s higher in protein but doesn’t have any other crap that could be bad.

by LOVING it you mean they eat it *in addition* to the feed or *instead* of the feed?
Unfortunately my chickens LOVE only 2 things: grains and meats, and neither is free. They would peck and eat bits of many other things like greens and fruits and veggies, but not in very significant quantities that it would substitute the 2 main things.

 

[Aunt Angus]

If the feed my chickens are eating is low in protein I dump a worm bin where I compost coffee grounds in their run... I wait until the coffee grounds are all taken care of by the worms first.... and if they need protein they feast on worms, if they do not need protein they pass up on worms. Worm composts are a great way to turn food chickens will not eat into food they will eat. Worm composts also have other things in them that chickens eat.

I really like this idea! Imma steal it... Thanks! I'll be sure to give you credit when my pullets ask !

 

[CanadaEh]

I think we only should watch out for carbs/protein ratio when feeding them such high carb treats as grains. Excess carbs can make chickens satisfied long before they eat the daily required protein level. I don't think veggies do much to that extent - they just nice to have extras for them and should not affect that balance.