Ginger Red And Opal Colors?

[Henk69]

NO, I did not mean recessive white as Opal is even recessive to recessive white. Opal has not been shown to be allelic to recessive white, and when crossed with recessive white the F1 generation is BLACK. When crossed for the F2 the results were 50% black 25% White and 25% Opal. TShelton54

In that case it would be proved that opal is not allelic to recessive white. I would be interested in the source of this finding.
Still, dominant white alleles are mostly dominant, so opal doesn't fit.

 

[nicalandia]

In that case it would be proved that opal is not allelic to recessive white. I would be interested in the source of this finding.
Still, dominant white alleles are mostly dominant, so opal doesn't fit.

Henk I believe Sjarvis provided enough evidence for our earlier assessment, other sources need to be as meticulous. I believe he is confusing the smokey gene(dominant white allele) with Opal

 

[sjarvis00]

NO, I did not mean recessive white as Opal is even recessive to recessive white. Opal has not been shown to be allelic to recessive white, and when crossed with recessive white the F1 generation is BLACK. When crossed for the F2 the results were 50% black 25% White and 25% Opal. TShelton54

Tim,
I will have to disagree with that statement, I made a cross with known recessive white hens using an Opal Male, all offspring demonstrated some color but not full color. None of the F1-F3 generations out of that mating were ever Black.
I did make a test mating with Red Pyle a short time ago, to modify some other type issues this resulted in a yellowish down color with grey dusting as was seen in the early Opal chicks. These are known to be a cross of E and e+

Here are a few Pics. Pure Opal first,



The Red Pyle Cross,

 

[sjarvis00]

The chicks that start off with the dark bluish to near black down and white breast develop thier color a bit differently and quicker, they do not start off smoky grey and turn the dun color they start the dun the color when setting in the color Here is one from last winters matings that was a Blue chick.

 

[nicalandia]

I did make a test mating with Red Pyle a short time ago, to modify some other type issues this resulted in a yellowish down color with grey dusting as was seen in the early Opal chicks. These are known to be a cross of E and e+

thanks again Sjarvis for your input, now the yellowish down can be due to dominant white and the grey dusting could be due to the heterozygous form of dominant white...

 

[nicalandia]

The chicks that start off with the dark bluish to near black down and white breast develop thier color a bit differently and quicker, they do not start off smoky grey and turn the dun color they start the dun the color when setting in the color Here is one from last winters matings that was a Blue chick.

is this bird based on Extended black or whats the e allele he is based on

 

[sjarvis00]

is this bird based on Extended black or whats the e allele he is based on

He is extended black. no cross there, and is the father to the red pyle cross chick.

 

[sjarvis00]

thanks again Sjarvis for your input, now the yellowish down can be due to dominant white and the grey dusting could be due to the heterozygous form of dominant white...

My thoughts exactly Marvin. Knowing what was in the breeding pen helps when you make a cross and being able to document the birds breeding back 10 + generations helps. I made the cross to help with a problem with wing length and scissor wing problems but did not expect to get the traditional "opal" colored chcik from a known cross of E and e+, I have one other mating that is a bit less known as to the genetic make-up as the female involved in that mating was crossed with a Birchen base one generation back, those chicks are grey with lighter undertones. But once again is a cross at the e-locus for extended black and possibly birchen.

 

[nicalandia]

My thoughts exactly Marvin. Knowing what was in the breeding pen helps when you make a cross and being able to document the birds breeding back 10 + generations helps. I made the cross to help with a problem with wing length and scissor wing problems but did not expect to get the traditional "opal" colored chcik from a known cross of E and e+, I have one other mating that is a bit less known as to the genetic make-up as the female involved in that mating was crossed with a Birchen base one generation back, those chicks are grey with lighter undertones. But once again is a cross at the e-locus for extended black and possibly birchen.

I love and appreciate your breeding documentation, this will help alot of people in the future, one question have how does Opal look on a e+/e+ background,

 

[sjarvis00]

Quote:

I love and appreciate your breeding documentation, this will help alot of people in the future, one question have how does Opal look on a e+/e+ background,

I have no Idea, I may find out if I run a F1xF1 like normal, I am interested to see if it will develop a wing bay myself.

Here is some additional photos to document the cross with Rec. white. The first is the Opal male that was used, second was the resulting F1 male, then F2 Male, F3 Male, and F4 male. Only line breeding was used with the cross to close it from other influences.