Ginger Red And Opal Colors?

[TShelton54]

I never said they are even possibly allelic to Dominant white. They are purely recessive so if there is any alleleism it would be to recessive white, and that has not been proven either yet. Mr. Fred Jeffries and I discussed at length the color Black in Old English. We both came to the conclusion that Black in Old English are basically Brown Reds with the addition of Melanotic to make the bird self black. this is the reason you can get Brassy Backs by crossing Black with BB Red. This same Melanotic gene added to BB Red creates the Brassy Back pattern.The opal is a recessive dilution because it has color zoning similar to the placement of melanotic on Brassy Backs. We think that the Opal "pattern" is a dilution of the melanotic zone that makes a Brown Red bird black. TShelton54

 

[Sonoran Silkies]

I never said they are even possibly allelic to Dominant white. They are purely recessive so if there is any alleleism it would be to recessive white, and that has not been proven either yet. Mr. Fred Jeffries and I discussed at length the color Black in Old English. We both came to the conclusion that Black in Old English are basically Brown Reds with the addition of Melanotic to make the bird self black. this is the reason you can get Brassy Backs by crossing Black with BB Red. This same Melanotic gene added to BB Red creates the Brassy Back pattern.The opal is a recessive dilution because it has color zoning similar to the placement of melanotic on Brassy Backs. We think that the Opal "pattern" is a dilution of the melanotic zone that makes a Brown Red bird black. TShelton54

Being purely recessive does not remove them from the possibility of being allelic to dominant white or push them into being allelic to recessive white.

 

[nicalandia]

Being purely recessive does not remove them from the possibility of being allelic to dominant white or push them into being allelic to recessive white.

while your statement is true, Sjarvis has made Recessive white x Opal matings and all of the chicks came out diluted, not black... this is very interesting indeed.

 

[KazJaps]

Tim,
I will have to disagree with that statement, I made a cross with known recessive white hens using an Opal Male, all offspring demonstrated some color but not full color. None of the F1-F3 generations out of that mating were ever Black.

I did make a test mating with Red Pyle a short time ago, to modify some other type issues this resulted in a yellowish down color with grey dusting as was seen in the early Opal chicks. These are known to be a cross of E and e+
.............................
The Red Pyle Cross,

I am trying to find out what locus the Opal mutation occurred on.....

sjarvis00,
Can you give a rundown please on how you know that with the first Opal x white cross, how you know for certain that the white hens used were recessive white? Did you test to determine whether or not these might have I - Dominant White too, &/or Bl/Bl blue splash?

As to the above red pyle x opal chicks, was the red pyle parent carrying one or two doses of Dominant White? And I'm trying to work out why the F1 above might have chick down very similar to the first homozygous Opals bred by "Opal OE"? This is not typical to get greyish chick down from I/i+ het. Dominant White, as Dominant White usually have cream/white eumelanin chick down, or sometimes white with eumelanin (eg black) patches in I/i+. Did you get to interbreed F1, & if so what was the result (p.s. - could segregate Opal e+/e+ from these too)?

Thanks,
Kaz.

 

[nicalandia]

I am trying to find out what locus the Opal mutation occurred on.....

sjarvis00,
Can you give a rundown please on how you know that with the first Opal x white cross, how you know for certain that the white hens used were recessive white? Did you test to determine whether or not these might have I - Dominant White too, &/or Bl/Bl blue splash?

As to the above red pyle x opal chicks, was the red pyle parent carrying one or two doses of Dominant White? And I'm trying to work out why the F1 above might have chick down very similar to the first homozygous Opals bred by "Opal OE"? This is not typical to get greyish chick down from I/i+ het. Dominant White, as Dominant White usually have cream/white eumelanin chick down, or sometimes white with eumelanin (eg black) patches in I/i+. Did you get to interbreed F1, & if so what was the result (p.s. - could segregate Opal e+/e+ from these too)?

Thanks,
Kaz.

all of these info is found on the Opal thread back at the Coop... but sadly I think the coop aint coming back again..

 

[KazJaps]

all of these info is found on the Opal thread back at the Coop... but sadly I think the coop aint coming back again..

I only have a google cached copy of page 4 of The Coop Opal thread:
http://webcache.googleusercontent.c...owflat&Number=98430+&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=au

But with all the discussion, I don't recall it mentioned how sjarvis00/TwinLakes tested the white hens to determine specific genotype. I.e., were they tested with blacks, BBRed - wild-type before crossing with Opal? And is it possible I - Dominant White &/or Bl - blue were in there too?

Plus, that Red-Pyle x Opal result is very strange, if Opal is not an allele of I - Dominant White locus.

Plus I find it strange here at BYC on page 1, post#10 the history given by sjarvis00 on Opals (references to lav - Lavender, Dominant White, Vorwerk, Opal in OEGB in the USA in the 1980's, etc) ? Has anyone else heard of an Opal-like mutation in OEGB in the USA beforehand (before segregation in Opal-OE /Ron's black OEGB, & Ron naming them "Opal"), & if so, was there a common name given? I haven't come across any references by Fred Jeffrey of a similar mutation, but I might be looking in the wrong places.
And it's unlikely that Opal is an allele of the lav - lavender locus, after Ron tested Opal x Lavender & got all black F1.

What I need is very exact test breeding results. Like all good science - research methods need confirmation, & results need to be replicable before new information is accepted as accurate. I need higher level of confidence that Opal is an allele of the c locus (TYR)
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#Good news - heard on the grapevine that The Coop will be up & running again in a day or so. You can access the forum index page & PM's right now, but not sub-forums at present (p.s -- Marvin, I sent you a PM there yesterday about Opals, plus to TwinLakes about a month ago) .

 

[Sonoran Silkies]

#Good news - heard on the grapevine that The Coop will be up & running again in a day or so. You can access the forum index page & PM's right now, but not sub-forums at present (p.s -- Marvin, I sent you a PM there yesterday about Opals, plus to TwinLakes about a month ago) .

YEA!!!

 

[nicalandia]

YEA!!!

 

[Sonoran Silkies]

Quote:

It is WONDERFUL to have you here!

 

[nicalandia]

It is WONDERFUL to have you here!

hey thats right, Mrs. Kaz has only posted twice... I forgot to check that up... I guess lots of our Coop friends made the move when they got to urge to teach but their "Classroom" was down... Thank for coming here Mrs. Kaz