- Thread starter
- #11
Giving up on the Turkeys
- Thread starter kangababy
- Start date
- Jun 9, 2010
- 254
- 1
- 99
Quote:
Did you isolate the sick birds? What antibiotic did you use? Are ones dieing that where not on antibiotics? Years ago I had some poults die from water soluble premix of vitamins and electrolytes.
Normally younger ones do not have the immune system that older ones have. Thats what was the big red flag with my birds that did not make since unless you know the oldest ones eat the most. There is differences in ages and tolerances between breeds.
You did ask if some breeds are harder. Reminded me of this ALBC artcle. http://www.albc-usa.org/news/jun6_04.html
Did you isolate the sick birds? What antibiotic did you use? Are ones dieing that where not on antibiotics? Years ago I had some poults die from water soluble premix of vitamins and electrolytes.
Normally younger ones do not have the immune system that older ones have. Thats what was the big red flag with my birds that did not make since unless you know the oldest ones eat the most. There is differences in ages and tolerances between breeds.
You did ask if some breeds are harder. Reminded me of this ALBC artcle. http://www.albc-usa.org/news/jun6_04.html
GROUND-BREAKING RESULTS FROM RESEARCH ON STANDARD TURKEYS
New research confirms that several standard varieties of naturally mating turkeys are more disease resistant than industrial strains. These findings show that standard turkeys, popularly known as "heritage" turkeys, are better suited for range production than their industrial Broad Breasted White counterparts.
What is a Standard Turkey?
The American Poultry Association (APA) has recognized standards for poultry, just as the American Kennel Club has standards for dogs. The APA recognizes eight varieties of turkeys. These varieties are naturally mating, not requiring artificial insemination, have a specific body conformation and feather pattern, and have names like Narragansett, Bronze, Black, Slate, and Bourbon Red. There are other color variations of naturally-mating turkeys that have not been standardized.
Nearly Extinct
As recently as 1997, standard varieties of turkeys were nearly extinct. A census conducted by the American Livestock Breeds Conservancy found only 1335 breeding birds remained. (Breeding stock produces the next generation, passing their genes on to their offspring.) Once common on the American agricultural landscape, these turkeys had nearly vanished. These colorful, inquisitive, and hardy birds seemed destined to become forgotten relics of the past. Fortunately, their fate has been turned through some powerful partnerships.
The Study
The American Livestock Breeds Conservancy (ALBC), Virginia Polytechnic Institute & State University in Blacksburg (Virginia Tech), and eight breeders and producers of standard turkeys collaborated to compare standard turkey varieties and an industrial strain for immune function and in range-based production systems. The hypothesis: Standard varieties of turkeys have superior immuno-competence and perform better in range-based production systems than industrial strains.
Field Trials
The project began with field trials conducted on eight farms situated across the country. Each raised two flocks of thirty birds: a mixed flock of males and females of the standard variety known as the Bourbon Red obtained from Privett Hatchery in Portales, New Mexico, and males only of medium sized industrial line of broad-breasted white turkeys provided by British United Turkeys of America (BUT), based in West Virginia. Birds had daily access to outdoor range, forage, shelter, and roosting locations. The participants collected data on weather, health, feed consumption, morbidity, mortality, weekly weight gain, harvest weight, and dressed weight, behavioral observations and sales.
The farm participants reported some expected results to faster weight gain and improved feed conversion in the industrial line when compared with the Bourbon Red. The broad-breasted whites attained market weight in an average of 131 days, compared to an average of 185 days for the Bourbon Reds. Correspondingly, the commercial birds consumed an average of 5 pounds of feed per pound of weight gain, while the Bourbon Reds consumed 6.08 pounds. Both flocks dressed out at about 75% of live weight. The average dressed weight of the Bourbon Red hens was 7.4 pounds; Bourbon Red toms 11.3 pounds; and commercial toms 17.5 pounds.
The industrial line, however, experienced greater mortalities from shipping stress, heat, and disease. Mortalities for the industrial line ranged from 13 to 93%, averaging 46%. The Bourbon Red mortality rate ranged from 15 to 31%, averaging 21%. (Loss from predation is not included in these mortality calculations since it can be argued that such a death is not related to a bird's immune response.)
The more active standard turkeys needed slightly different management techniques to keep them in their pastures and closer to home. Lighter weight Bourbon Red hens were well equipped to fly, often escaping the confines of the pens. Both Bourbon Red hens and toms began roosting at an early age, while the industrial toms were not as inclined to roost, if at all. The Bourbon Reds were active foragers, covering the pasture and readily eating offered treats of melon and vegetables. The industrial birds were more sedentary, especially as they got heavier, primarily seeking the feed ration. The industrial birds suffered in the heat, panting and seeking relief in the cool soil in the shade of the barn. While the Bourbon Reds sought shade, they did not exhibit the same degree of discomfort and physical stress from the heat.
Laboratory Evaluation
Dr. Robert Gogal, Jr., a veterinarian, immunotoxicologist at Virginia Tech, conducted a series of laboratory tests to assess immune function on five varieties of standard turkeys (Black, Bourbon Red, Narragansett, Royal Palm and Slate) and an industrial line provided by BUT. Results from laboratory tests confirmed what the farmers witnessed.
Two measures of hematologic function were taken. Packed cell volume measures red blood cells, which carry oxygen to the cells of the body. Total protein measure globulins and albumin, both of which are critical to immune response. In both tests the higher the measure, the healthier the bird. In all instances the standard varieties had higher packed cell volume and total protein, and the industrial line had the lowest.
Two tests of immune response were conducted: non-specific T-cell stimulation and pan-lymphocyte stimulation. In each instance the standard turkeys' immune response was superior to that of the industrial line. Royal Palms performed best, followed by Bourbon Reds, and Slates.
The standard varieties had significantly higher survivability when directly exposed to disease. Royal Palm, Narragansett, Bourbon Red, Slate, and Black turkeys, and a commercial line of British United Turkeys of America were challenged with Hemorrhagic Enteritis Virus when they were six weeks old. They were then exposed to E. coli seven days later. All but two of the BUT died the first day after infection with E. coli. The remaining two died within three days. In contrast, a majority of the standard turkeys survived past three days of bacterial infection, and lived to the study's termination. None of the Black, Slate or Bourbon Red turkeys died. The Narragansett and Royal Palm did not perform as well: most of them died during the course of the study. (A paper is being prepared for submission to the journal Avian Diseases.)
Unlike humans, most mammals and birds are able to synthesize ascorbic acid, commonly known as vitamin C. Ascorbic acid has been shown to enhance immune function, modulate gene expression, act as a co-factor in enzymatic reactions, and protect organisms from free radical damage during oxidative stress. An assay measuring endogenous ascorbic acid levels in tissue and plasma samples showed that the Black turkeys had the highest average plasma ascorbic acid concentration overall. Bourbon Reds were a close second, followed by Slates and Royal Palms. The Narragansett turkeys had the lowest average ascorbic acid concentration - approximately half that of the Blacks. (Submission of a manuscript of this work to a poultry nutrition journal is planned for June 2004.)
Virginia Tech's physical evaluation confirmed weight change, with the industrial line being three times heavier than the standard varieties at nine weeks of age. Hatchability of all of the standard varieties was excellent at 75 to 88%. The industrial line was not evaluated since only males were available.
Dr. Ed Smith of the Comparative Genomics Lab, Department of Animal and Poultry Sciences at Virginia Tech, found DNA evidence indicating that the Royal Palm is genetically distinct from the other four varieties analyzed. It is most closely related to the Narragansett. The Bourbon Red, Slate and Black are more closely related to one another.
Conservation Justified
Each of these studies is interesting and valuable on its own. As a group, they are stunning. They clearly indicate that the Slate, Black, and Bourbon Red turkeys, by virtue of their genetics, have more vigorous immune systems, making them obvious choices for free range production. The only parameters on which the industrial lines excel are feed conversion and rate of gain.
Standard turkeys varieties offer a robust immune system and with it a lower mortality rate, the ability to mate naturally, excellent hatchability, active foraging, increased levels of endogenous vitamin C, intelligence and overall attractiveness.
These are very exciting findings. They demonstrate the value and importance of the genetic resources embodied in standard varieties of turkeys, supporting claims long made by breeders, and justifying turkey conservation.
New research confirms that several standard varieties of naturally mating turkeys are more disease resistant than industrial strains. These findings show that standard turkeys, popularly known as "heritage" turkeys, are better suited for range production than their industrial Broad Breasted White counterparts.
What is a Standard Turkey?
The American Poultry Association (APA) has recognized standards for poultry, just as the American Kennel Club has standards for dogs. The APA recognizes eight varieties of turkeys. These varieties are naturally mating, not requiring artificial insemination, have a specific body conformation and feather pattern, and have names like Narragansett, Bronze, Black, Slate, and Bourbon Red. There are other color variations of naturally-mating turkeys that have not been standardized.
Nearly Extinct
As recently as 1997, standard varieties of turkeys were nearly extinct. A census conducted by the American Livestock Breeds Conservancy found only 1335 breeding birds remained. (Breeding stock produces the next generation, passing their genes on to their offspring.) Once common on the American agricultural landscape, these turkeys had nearly vanished. These colorful, inquisitive, and hardy birds seemed destined to become forgotten relics of the past. Fortunately, their fate has been turned through some powerful partnerships.
The Study
The American Livestock Breeds Conservancy (ALBC), Virginia Polytechnic Institute & State University in Blacksburg (Virginia Tech), and eight breeders and producers of standard turkeys collaborated to compare standard turkey varieties and an industrial strain for immune function and in range-based production systems. The hypothesis: Standard varieties of turkeys have superior immuno-competence and perform better in range-based production systems than industrial strains.
Field Trials
The project began with field trials conducted on eight farms situated across the country. Each raised two flocks of thirty birds: a mixed flock of males and females of the standard variety known as the Bourbon Red obtained from Privett Hatchery in Portales, New Mexico, and males only of medium sized industrial line of broad-breasted white turkeys provided by British United Turkeys of America (BUT), based in West Virginia. Birds had daily access to outdoor range, forage, shelter, and roosting locations. The participants collected data on weather, health, feed consumption, morbidity, mortality, weekly weight gain, harvest weight, and dressed weight, behavioral observations and sales.
The farm participants reported some expected results to faster weight gain and improved feed conversion in the industrial line when compared with the Bourbon Red. The broad-breasted whites attained market weight in an average of 131 days, compared to an average of 185 days for the Bourbon Reds. Correspondingly, the commercial birds consumed an average of 5 pounds of feed per pound of weight gain, while the Bourbon Reds consumed 6.08 pounds. Both flocks dressed out at about 75% of live weight. The average dressed weight of the Bourbon Red hens was 7.4 pounds; Bourbon Red toms 11.3 pounds; and commercial toms 17.5 pounds.
The industrial line, however, experienced greater mortalities from shipping stress, heat, and disease. Mortalities for the industrial line ranged from 13 to 93%, averaging 46%. The Bourbon Red mortality rate ranged from 15 to 31%, averaging 21%. (Loss from predation is not included in these mortality calculations since it can be argued that such a death is not related to a bird's immune response.)
The more active standard turkeys needed slightly different management techniques to keep them in their pastures and closer to home. Lighter weight Bourbon Red hens were well equipped to fly, often escaping the confines of the pens. Both Bourbon Red hens and toms began roosting at an early age, while the industrial toms were not as inclined to roost, if at all. The Bourbon Reds were active foragers, covering the pasture and readily eating offered treats of melon and vegetables. The industrial birds were more sedentary, especially as they got heavier, primarily seeking the feed ration. The industrial birds suffered in the heat, panting and seeking relief in the cool soil in the shade of the barn. While the Bourbon Reds sought shade, they did not exhibit the same degree of discomfort and physical stress from the heat.
Laboratory Evaluation
Dr. Robert Gogal, Jr., a veterinarian, immunotoxicologist at Virginia Tech, conducted a series of laboratory tests to assess immune function on five varieties of standard turkeys (Black, Bourbon Red, Narragansett, Royal Palm and Slate) and an industrial line provided by BUT. Results from laboratory tests confirmed what the farmers witnessed.
Two measures of hematologic function were taken. Packed cell volume measures red blood cells, which carry oxygen to the cells of the body. Total protein measure globulins and albumin, both of which are critical to immune response. In both tests the higher the measure, the healthier the bird. In all instances the standard varieties had higher packed cell volume and total protein, and the industrial line had the lowest.
Two tests of immune response were conducted: non-specific T-cell stimulation and pan-lymphocyte stimulation. In each instance the standard turkeys' immune response was superior to that of the industrial line. Royal Palms performed best, followed by Bourbon Reds, and Slates.
The standard varieties had significantly higher survivability when directly exposed to disease. Royal Palm, Narragansett, Bourbon Red, Slate, and Black turkeys, and a commercial line of British United Turkeys of America were challenged with Hemorrhagic Enteritis Virus when they were six weeks old. They were then exposed to E. coli seven days later. All but two of the BUT died the first day after infection with E. coli. The remaining two died within three days. In contrast, a majority of the standard turkeys survived past three days of bacterial infection, and lived to the study's termination. None of the Black, Slate or Bourbon Red turkeys died. The Narragansett and Royal Palm did not perform as well: most of them died during the course of the study. (A paper is being prepared for submission to the journal Avian Diseases.)
Unlike humans, most mammals and birds are able to synthesize ascorbic acid, commonly known as vitamin C. Ascorbic acid has been shown to enhance immune function, modulate gene expression, act as a co-factor in enzymatic reactions, and protect organisms from free radical damage during oxidative stress. An assay measuring endogenous ascorbic acid levels in tissue and plasma samples showed that the Black turkeys had the highest average plasma ascorbic acid concentration overall. Bourbon Reds were a close second, followed by Slates and Royal Palms. The Narragansett turkeys had the lowest average ascorbic acid concentration - approximately half that of the Blacks. (Submission of a manuscript of this work to a poultry nutrition journal is planned for June 2004.)
Virginia Tech's physical evaluation confirmed weight change, with the industrial line being three times heavier than the standard varieties at nine weeks of age. Hatchability of all of the standard varieties was excellent at 75 to 88%. The industrial line was not evaluated since only males were available.
Dr. Ed Smith of the Comparative Genomics Lab, Department of Animal and Poultry Sciences at Virginia Tech, found DNA evidence indicating that the Royal Palm is genetically distinct from the other four varieties analyzed. It is most closely related to the Narragansett. The Bourbon Red, Slate and Black are more closely related to one another.
Conservation Justified
Each of these studies is interesting and valuable on its own. As a group, they are stunning. They clearly indicate that the Slate, Black, and Bourbon Red turkeys, by virtue of their genetics, have more vigorous immune systems, making them obvious choices for free range production. The only parameters on which the industrial lines excel are feed conversion and rate of gain.
Standard turkeys varieties offer a robust immune system and with it a lower mortality rate, the ability to mate naturally, excellent hatchability, active foraging, increased levels of endogenous vitamin C, intelligence and overall attractiveness.
These are very exciting findings. They demonstrate the value and importance of the genetic resources embodied in standard varieties of turkeys, supporting claims long made by breeders, and justifying turkey conservation.
- Thread starter
- #14
Just an update..
So on Oct 30/31 my dad and I decided to start eating our turkeys since they were sropping like wildfire.. so he stopped giving them antibotics and wouldn't you know.. knock on wood... we haven't lost one since! SO they give to live a little bit longer..
I do need some blue slate hens if anyone knows where I can get them close to alabama
So on Oct 30/31 my dad and I decided to start eating our turkeys since they were sropping like wildfire.. so he stopped giving them antibotics and wouldn't you know.. knock on wood... we haven't lost one since! SO they give to live a little bit longer..
I do need some blue slate hens if anyone knows where I can get them close to alabama
I raise my turkeys on grass... in a moveable pen... so i drag it a few feet every day, for fresh grass. I haven't really had any problems after they got older than a week or two. other than them just being terrifying. I've scared mine a billion times.. pretty much every time I try to change their bedding or lock them up at night... they freak out and flap around, and generally kick my a$$. so I sort of hate them... but i like them too, and want them to be happy. i understand that they're turkeys, and I expect them to act like turkeys.
i do agree that they're stupid, any change freaks them out... but they do figure it out after a few hours, and even when I changed their waterer, they still figured it out.
i do agree that they're stupid, any change freaks them out... but they do figure it out after a few hours, and even when I changed their waterer, they still figured it out.
My experience is only about 7 months total, but letting my birds free range seems to make them pretty observant and mellow. I don't see much flightyness, nor do I see stupidity, as they are pretty curious and seem to learn who belongs and who doesn't. Somebody new drives onto the property and the hens start "cutting" fairly loudly as an alert. They also have no issues finding food, or trouble.
- Jul 30, 2009
- 2,321
- 15
- 181
Quote:
Ummm, have they been getting antibiotics all the time?
THose are only for actual illness, and even then, probiotics are a far better choice. Antibiotics leave the immune system very low, as they kill off the good bacteria as well.
Ummm, have they been getting antibiotics all the time?
THose are only for actual illness, and even then, probiotics are a far better choice. Antibiotics leave the immune system very low, as they kill off the good bacteria as well.
I swear I don't see how people can let them free range. I tried it right up until the day they learned to hop up on our vehicles and one tried to fly in our window. They're curious to the point that they're downright obnoxious. I have no problem with the chickens free ranging. They mind their own business, pecking around for bugs and seeds and generally staying out of our way.
But the turkeys fly where ever they want to go, and then they mess up stuff, crap all over the barn, want to be right where we're working, scratch up the truck, peck at our clothes, wedding bands, and tools, scatter things around, eat things they shouldn't, and generally make a nuisance of themselves.
AND they're smart enough to hop the fence to get out, but come nightfall they can't remember how to get back in so we have to catch them one by one and carry them to their coop. Every. single. night.
I have to keep reminding dh how much we love them. With gravy.
But the turkeys fly where ever they want to go, and then they mess up stuff, crap all over the barn, want to be right where we're working, scratch up the truck, peck at our clothes, wedding bands, and tools, scatter things around, eat things they shouldn't, and generally make a nuisance of themselves.
AND they're smart enough to hop the fence to get out, but come nightfall they can't remember how to get back in so we have to catch them one by one and carry them to their coop. Every. single. night.
I have to keep reminding dh how much we love them. With gravy.
Quote:
What part of Alabama are you in?
What part of Alabama are you in?
Quote:
Ours stay in the fences, when we first put them in they will jump out. Some wing clipping keeps them in and once they get older they stay in.
Steve
Ours stay in the fences, when we first put them in they will jump out. Some wing clipping keeps them in and once they get older they stay in.
Steve
Similar threads
New posts New threads Active threads
-
Threads with more replies in the last 15 days
-
Challenges of living in the woods with chickens
- Started by Carontheroad
- Replies: 169
-
Moderator Appreciation 2025- Started by Nifty-Chicken
- Replies: 95
-
-
-
Open Contest Official BYC Poultry Caption Contest 06-20-25 Pic by Jenbirdee- Started by TwoCrows
- Replies: 55
-
