GMO discussion with teacher

[hemet dennis]

Quote:
well i don't know what being from California has to do with any of this. But i don't think anyone is always right, but the fed's have cut water to some farmers here. But most things that the government gets in to gets screwed up

The point being, that your state's economy has been severly hampered, by environmentalists, and thus, a large portion of the nation's food supply. Dealing with problems, which are immediately in front of us, with solutions as simple as lifting onerous, arbitrary regulations, and turning the water back on, would eliminate a huge portion of any food shortage, and reboot the economy in one fell swoop. Instead, we'll play around with plant genetics, hoping to get a few more kernels on an ear of corn, which can take years, and in the end, due to hybridization, create the possibilty of a major disaster, if other factors are involved....Like having environmentalists shut off the water supply to your crop.

As would the oil pipe line from Canada to Texas and drilling for more oil here

 

[chicken_boy_Kurt]

My opinion in all this - "Don't fix it if it ain't broke."

I have actually done a lot of research on GMOs. GMO foods wreak havoc in our bodies. The biggest problem is that they reduce fertility. So if we keep eating them and producing them, the growing population may fix itself... Also, once you eat them, they react with the bacteria in your digestive system and genetically modify those bacteria. You then have GMO-producing organisms in your body.

Not just health concerns, but GMOs are also ruining our genetic diversity. When we only plant one variety/strain/breed of crop, we are at risk of that variety/strain/breed becoming susceptible to some disease that other varieties/strains/breeds are not susceptible to. This happens in livestock too. An example is the dairy industry; 98% of dairy cows today are Holstein. What if a disease pops up that only affects Holstein cows because other breeds have a resistance to that disease, but Holsteins don't? Our dairy industry would be virtually destroyed, and all the farmers would have no income.

While I recognize the fact that GMOs generally produce more than non-GMOs, I believe that they are not the solution. What the solution is... I don't know. I really don't think GMOs or organic foods will work... But that's my opinion.

 

[hemet dennis]

Quote:
So why is the farmer buying the seed there is other seed ?

Because Monsanto has been lobbying for years for laws that protect their interests. While it hasn't totally happened yet, we have all seen some goofy rules coming out of the FDA and other agencies that bolster Monsanto and make it harder and harder for farmers to plant what they want. Rules about what can be planted, where it can be planted, and how if GMO seeds get blown into neighboring fields, suddenly that farmer cannot save his own seed because it now contains Monsanto's patented plant material. Or he can save it but has to pay their fees in some cases. It gets to be all about legalities instead of farming. Monsanto's got plenty of lawyers. Family farmers do not. Eventually their GMO technology will have been spread by the wind to infect all the seed and they will control production on those farms whether the farmer agrees or not.

I would not want to be a farmer dependent on his farm for sole support of his family in, say, about 15-20 years. By then it is gonna be really hard to find seed that has not been affected in some way by Monsanto's plant patents.

JMO, of course.


Rusty

Well there are a lot of stories about Monsanto that are not true. If one of my chickens mates with one of your chickens is it a copy of yours or mine no it's a mix if my bull mates your cow can i sue you ?
If I plant 100 acres of corn and you plant 100 acres next door how much of my corn will end up with your corns DNA ?

 

[mhwc56]

another point about GMOs/hybrid seeds ,which hasn't been mentioned is that if you save seed from these plants and sow them the following season,you don't get the same plants as the year before.
i have had tomato plants sprout up from self sown seed of the year before and left them to produce and gotten a MESS. A couple produced fruit that were nearly SQUARE and had no flavor.A couple produced fruit that had such a thick ,tough skin and grainy textured meat inside that they were unpleasant to eat. And a couple had good skin,and good flesh but weren't all that flavorful ..NOT ONE single plant produced anything that is as tasty as a fresh picked tomato should be . These were obviously plants that were bred together to form a plant that ships and stores well and that someone with a sense of humor thought to call a "Tomato" and charge a ridiculous price per pound for in the grocerystore.


AND on the Monsanto "Round-up Ready" product issue....did it not occur to anyone that the R-U.Ready seed has to be treated with such a HIGH TOXIC HERBICIDE level of product that the ensuing plant will be TOXIC enough as a mature plant that it will give off enough R-U. that the weeds will die near said mature plant? AND THEN we as consumers put that into ours and our children's bodies........what is smart and acceptable about that?

Big commercial companies are making it difficult for anyone to be self-sufficient. We as a country are just letting those with the mega bucks control everything..and like silly sheep following along behind without a whimper ....turned into slaves as surely as if we were to be shackled in irons and chains.
Think about it.

 

[hemet dennis]

Quote:
Oh you have to do better then that you just cant say "GMO foods wreak havoc in our bodies" with out some kind of proof

 

[Fred's Hens]

Quote:
But that was not the result of GMO, as there hasn't been any GMO tomatoes grow in the US for a decade. The experiment with tomatoes failed. None grown in Europe either. http://www.gmo-compass.org/eng/grocery_shopping/fruit_vegetables/15.genetically_modified_tomatoes.html

The F1 hybrid vegetable will not "breed true", to use a hybrid chicken sex-link analogy. F1 hybrid vegetables are popular, but not with seed savers, for this reason.
Johnny's Seeds and most other garden seed houses sell both kinds and they are clearly marked.

 

[chicken_boy_Kurt]

Quote:
Oh you have to do better then that you just cant say "GMO foods wreak havoc in our bodies" with out some kind of proof

I told you how...

The biggest problem is that they reduce fertility. So if we keep eating them and producing them, the growing population may fix itself... Also, once you eat them, they react with the bacteria in your digestive system and genetically modify those bacteria. You then have GMO-producing organisms in your body.

From Extraordinary Health magazine: Seeds of Deception

It's rather appalling. When GM soy flour was given to female rats, most of their babies died within three weeks. For those that survived, they were smaller and had future fertility problems. Likewise, male rats fed GM soy or corn experienced testicular discoloration, damaged sperm cells, DNA function alterations, fewer offspring and smaller babies....
...in the US population the incidence of low birth weight babies, infertility, and infant mortality are all escalating. That coincides with increased GM food intake.

(I grant that that last part could very well be a coincidence. But there's more.)

When sheep grazed on Bt cotton [a type of GM cotton] plants after harvest, thousands died. Post mortems showed severe irritation and black patches in their intestines and livers. Investigators said preliminary evidence "strongly suggests that the sheep mortality was due to a toxin....most probably Bt-toxin." In a small feeding study, 100% of sheep fed Bt cotton plants died within 30 days, while those grazing on natural cotton plants in the adjoining field had no symptoms.

Jeffrey M. Smith did many of these studies and is at the forefront of the debate on the use of GMO crops.

There's proof. You don't have to believe it. I do believe it, however.​

 

[punk-a-doodle]

GMO is an all around bad idea to me mainly due to:
-Genetic diversity loss
-Made with corporate ownership in mind...not feeding the masses (Which isn't a long-term solution at any rate, with population growth as it is coupled with the rate of habitat/biodiversity loss http://ingles.homeunix.net/rants/density.html )
-Shaped for sale, as is commercial non-GMO produce. Ie. Not for nutrients or taste, but size, color, sweetness, etc.

It is part of the reason why I am working towards land with the intent of growing genetically diverse produce.

 

[hemet dennis]

Quote:
Oh you have to do better then that you just cant say "GMO foods wreak havoc in our bodies" with out some kind of proof

I told you how...

The biggest problem is that they reduce fertility. So if we keep eating them and producing them, the growing population may fix itself... Also, once you eat them, they react with the bacteria in your digestive system and genetically modify those bacteria. You then have GMO-producing organisms in your body.

From Extraordinary Health magazine: Seeds of Deception

It's rather appalling. When GM soy flour was given to female rats, most of their babies died within three weeks. For those that survived, they were smaller and had future fertility problems. Likewise, male rats fed GM soy or corn experienced testicular discoloration, damaged sperm cells, DNA function alterations, fewer offspring and smaller babies....
...in the US population the incidence of low birth weight babies, infertility, and infant mortality are all escalating. That coincides with increased GM food intake.

(I grant that that last part could very well be a coincidence. But there's more.)

When sheep grazed on Bt cotton [a type of GM cotton] plants after harvest, thousands died. Post mortems showed severe irritation and black patches in their intestines and livers. Investigators said preliminary evidence "strongly suggests that the sheep mortality was due to a toxin....most probably Bt-toxin." In a small feeding study, 100% of sheep fed Bt cotton plants died within 30 days, while those grazing on natural cotton plants in the adjoining field had no symptoms.

Jeffrey M. Smith did many of these studies and is at the forefront of the debate on the use of GMO crops.

There's proof. You don't have to believe it. I do believe it, however.​

So you are taking from one source, and that source is a person that owns a vertically integrated organic food and beverage company farming nearly 9,000 organic acres in Missouri and Georgia. So do you have anything from someone that doesn't have such a big dog in the race ?​

 

[chickened]

In order for organic farms to compete in the market place they need two things, a market to sell to and a comparable yield. In the first of the two you tell everyone that GMO is taboo and inevitably a certain percentage of people will put that in thier head and we all know nobody is going to get that crap out on this planet but the one that put that idea in there. On the 2nd one in order to increase yields organicly growere put excess addatives that are acceptable to the organic model which results in other environmental issues like excess salts, phospherous and other natural excesses that run into our streams and if diseases happen they cannot control them from spreading and maintain thier organic status. I really see no difference but I also think on a small scale organic would be best but not for supplying the masses.

And if finger pointing is the MO then I think government is to blame not corporation. Some plant are and have been modified by nature are they bad also?