⠀ GMO & soy free feed

[Athaid]

That is a matter of opinion, and varies with time and dietary trends as I stated...

IMO (and many others) eggs are not bad for you, as a single food they rival just about anything else providing almost every essential vitamin and mineral out bodies need, along with a slew of protein and amino acids we need...

A simple Google search will reveal that 20 years ago eggs (especially the yolks) were demonized by nutritionist as artery cloggers due to their cholesterol content and put on the baddies list but studies and data failed to back up cholesterol was all that bad and instead pointed to saturated and trans fats being the real problem artery clogger, so eggs are now back on the good to eat list as long as you are healthy and don't have a history of high cholesterol or heart disease... AKA a shift in dietary trends towards eggs...

Now you can deny this shifting of dietary trends, but anyone can verify it with a Google search or some study on the topic...

It's not opinion that eggs are very high in cholesterol, and the cholesterol in Eggs is not good for you. The healthiest foods are plant foods. I am on mobile and it keeps crashing so can't link stuff but I suggest you look up nutritionfacts.org, watch some vids by bitesize vegan, read books like the china study and watch some documentaries. I'm vegan for ethical and enviromental reasons, but also for health reasons. So that's why I won't be eating our ex battery hens eggs. I've done a lot of reseach, eggs are not good for you by any stretch of the imagination. Animal protein and fat is terrible for your health. I eat as much as I want, about 2700 calories a day and I'm a girl. I've never felt or looked so good, and i'm getting all the nutrients I need. I can't have a full convo while on mobile.

 

[MeepBeep]

It's not opinion that eggs are very high in cholesterol, and the cholesterol in Eggs is not good for you.

Dietary cholesterol has little effect on body level cholesterol in healthy individuals, to group dietary cholesterol and the bodies own HDL and LDL cholesterol together is haphazardness and ill advised as they are three different things...

Fact is you need cholesterol it's essential for bodily functions, and dietary cholesterol like that found in eggs is not inherently bad to most people as it has little to effect the livers production of bodily cholesterol... If you have existing cholesterol problems and/or a medical condition eggs might be harmful, but that is almost entirely based on consumption rates, moderation can have a huge impact...

The healthiest foods are plant foods.

For a herbivore no doubt, for a omnivore like humans or a carnivore I fully beg to differ...

I suggest you look up nutritionfacts.org, watch some vids by bitesize vegan

Sorry I don't do the Vegan propaganda website thing... Michael Herschel Greger and his nutrition facts website is dictated by his Vegan agenda, and his Humane Society agenda, he is clearly biased and has motives for what he publishes and what he doesn't... He is no stranger to cherry picking his data while ignoring anything that contradicts his agenda and views... The short of it is that he is far from unbiased in his views and proclamations...

I'm vegan for ethical and enviromental reasons, but also for health reasons. So that's why I won't be eating our ex battery hens eggs. I've done a lot of reseach, eggs are not good for you by any stretch of the imagination. Animal protein and fat is terrible for your health.

Your ideals and opinions are clearly set and I doubt anything will change that, but don't confuse that with being the definitive end all with anyone disagreeing or differing being wrong... The world is far from that black and white...

I eat as much as I want, about 2700 calories a day and I'm a girl. I've never felt or looked so good, and i'm getting all the nutrients I need.

I'm glad you are happy with your dietary choices, and I support your choice to eat what you choose...

But, don't take that as an endorsement nor fool yourself into thinking your dietary choice is the only healthy one and all others are bad and/or that people that choose to eat animal protein or not follow your dietary choices are unhealthy or causing harm just because you say so, it doesn't work that way and is far from that black and white...

 

[jacobhawaiifarm]

Thanks everyone for your responses...seems like soy is okay.
I just think it is so strange to market chicken feed the same way they market human product label.
thanks for the help everyone!!

 

[Athaid]

Dietary cholesterol has little effect on body level cholesterol in healthy individuals, to group dietary cholesterol and the bodies own HDL and LDL cholesterol together is haphazardness and ill advised as they are three different things...

Fact is you need cholesterol it's essential for bodily functions, and dietary cholesterol like that found in eggs is not inherently bad to most people as it has little to effect the livers production of bodily cholesterol... If you have existing cholesterol problems and/or a medical condition eggs might be harmful, but that is almost entirely based on consumption rates, moderation can have a huge impact...
For a herbivore no doubt, for a omnivore like humans or a carnivore I fully beg to differ...
Sorry I don't do the Vegan propaganda website thing... Michael Herschel Greger and his nutrition facts website is dictated by his Vegan agenda, and his Humane Society agenda, he is clearly biased and has motives for what he publishes and what he doesn't... He is no stranger to cherry picking his data while ignoring anything that contradicts his agenda and views... The short of it is that he is far from unbiased in his views and proclamations...
Your ideals and opinions are clearly set and I doubt anything will change that, but don't confuse that with being the definitive end all with anyone disagreeing or differing being wrong... The world is far from that black and white...
I'm glad you are happy with your dietary choices, and I support your choice to eat what you choose...

But, don't take that as an endorsement nor fool yourself into thinking your dietary choice is the only healthy one and all others are bad and/or that people that choose to eat animal protein or not follow your dietary choices are unhealthy or causing harm just because you say so, it doesn't work that way and is far from that black and white...

Humans are herbivores. If you looked into the things I said you would know that. No offence but I can't talk to you if you want even look at the evidence. Eating animal products is cruel, bad for the environment and bad for your health. that's why more and more people are going vegan. I love animals and I will not contribute to their suffering because I like the taste of cheese. End of story.

 

[MeepBeep]

Humans are herbivores.

If you honestly believe that, you might want to take some basic biology and anatomy classes... Start with the human teeth makeup, look at human 'canine' teeth aka incisors and also the motion of our jaw bone when chewing, then study the human digestive system, and the digestive process... To be flat out blunt humans are not herbivores, we are omnivores this is a biological fact, even if you choose to ignore it...

If you looked into the things I said you would know that.

I have several years of College Biology, Human Anatomy/Physiology, Chemistry and Nutrition under my belt (mostly pre-med classes) and certainly won't gain any knowledge from a Vegan and Animal Rights Propaganda website beyond a good laugh...

No offence but I can't talk to you if you want even look at the evidence.

You mean like the mountain of scientific evidence that supports the fact we are omnivores, that evidence that you choose to ignore and dismiss?

Eating animal products is cruel, bad for the environment and bad for your health.

You are entitled to your opinion, doesn't mean it's correct or shared by all...

I love animals and I will not contribute to their suffering because I like the taste of cheese.

Why do you have chickens then, and what do you do with their eggs?

 

[Athaid]

If you honestly believe that, you might want to take some basic biology and anatomy classes... Start with the human teeth makeup, look at human 'canine' teeth aka incisors and also the motion of our jaw bone when chewing, then study the human digestive system, and the digestive process... To be flat out blunt humans are not herbivores, we are omnivores this is a biological fact, even if you choose to ignore it...
I have several years of College Biology, Human Anatomy/Physiology, Chemistry and Nutrition under my belt (mostly pre-med classes) and certainly won't gain any knowledge from a Vegan and Animal Rights Propaganda website beyond a good laugh...
You mean like the mountain of scientific evidence that supports the fact we are omnivores, that evidence that you choose to ignore and dismiss?
You are entitled to your opinion, doesn't mean it's correct or shared by all...
Why do you have chickens then, and what do you do with their eggs?

Firstly I don't have chickens, but will be rescuing some. We want to rescue them and give them a good life as pets, they lay the eggs, so they can keep the eggs. You say "If you honestly believe that, you might want to take some basic biology and anatomy classes... Start with the human teeth makeup, look at human 'canine' teeth aka incisors and also the motion of our jaw bone when chewing, then study the human digestive system, and the digestive process... To be flat out blunt humans are not herbivores, we are omnivores this is a biological fact, even if you choose to ignore it.." but that's exactly my point. We are herbivores, physiologically and psychologically. You don't see lions crying after killing an animal, why does it disturb humans so much? I don't need a degree, or a piece of paper to know that taking a baby away from a mother so that I can drink the milk is wrong. It's unnecessary, cruel, and as I mentioned before, it's terrible for the environment and for your health. Stop using the actions of other animals to justify yours. We are not lions. we are not omnivores. The evidence doesn't add up. The cheapest foods are vegan. Rice, potato's, beans, lentils etc.. but guess what we grow instead? grains, grains to feed to livestock so that the west can have all their cheeseburgers and ice cream. We grow enough food to feed everyone on earth, but some how there are still starving people. why? because it gets fed to the animals on farms. and the animals get fed to the people in the west. EDIT: we're more of a frugivore than a herbivore as we generally don't eat grass and pychologically we are not attracted to it the same way we are attracted to fruit. Either way a plant based diet is what we're built for. True omnivores don't have pets, or find other animals cute. Nor would they be disturbed or upset if they saw an animal being killed, some people faint at the sight of blood. We can't digest meat very well, if you lived entirely on animal products you would have a lot of health issues, but you can eat as much fruit as you want and you'll never get ill from it, provided it is clean and hasn't been covered in chemicals of course. Which doesn't have anything to do with the fruit itself, only the way it has been grown.
And if you think standing up for animals and spreading this message is propaganda then what do you call the laughing cow ads? The smiling farm animals on yoghurt packets? What exactly do vegans gain from going against the grain and talking about these things? Last year I felt the same way you do, I had to see chicks being ground up alive and calves being taken from their mothers before I finally changed my mind. I want people to know the truth. That is all.

 

[MeepBeep]

Firstly I don't have chickens, but will be rescuing some. We want to rescue them and give them a good life as pets, they lay the eggs, so they can keep the eggs.

Unless they are fertile, the hen goes broody and you let them hatch you will have nothing but a bunch of stinky ticking sulfur bombs... Hens don't 'keep' eggs in fact most abandon them within minutes of laying unless they snap into a broody cycle..

but that's exactly my point. We are ​herbivores, physiologically and psychologically.

You are using a false dichotomy fallacy, ignoring the 3rd possibility that we are omnivores...

You don't see lions crying after killing an animal, why does it disturb humans so much?

Again your feelings are not universal, I have no issues killing an animal for food or protection and it does not disturb me one bit... In fact I can't say I have ever shed a tear for any animal I have killed for food or protection as there is no emotional connection between me and food or a threat... I have been hunting for pretty much my entire life and have also been killing threats to my animals my entire life, in fact I just eliminated a possum last night that was stalking my coop, not a single tear shed or any regret or remorse...

Stop using the actions of other animals to justify yours. We are not lions. we are not omnivores.

Not sure where you are trying to go with this, of course we are not lions never said we were, we are not cows either... So I ask why do you insist on bringing carnivores into debate about herbivores and omnivores? No one said we are carnivores, so the comparison to carnivores is an ignoratio elenchi fallacy...

The evidence doesn't add up.

What? The entirety of our known historical record shows humanoids being omnivores and eating both plant and animal mater, and that still holds true by a huge margin today, where over 97% of the human population is still omnivores with very few devoted plant only protein eating people, vegetarians are the exception not the rule... And that leads to a lot of evidence adding up to being omnivores with little to support for us being herbivores...

The cheapest foods are vegan. Rice, potato's, beans, lentils etc..

What does the cost of this or that type of food have to do with our biological makeup?

We grow enough food to feed everyone on earth, but some how there are still starving people. why? because it gets fed to the animals on farms. and the animals get fed to the people in the west. 

Hardly, you are tossing up a red herring fallacy, our dietary choices does not equate to human starvation... In the US the reason people starve is because about 60% of all food, including meats and a higher percentage of vegetables go uneaten and into landfills, that is A LOT of food, enough to solve a lot of world hunger on it's own... Add in the waste in other countries and there is no reason anyone should go hungry...

Waste, overpopulation and economy are what cause starvation, not dietary choices...

I see this waste every single day as I have a deal with a grocery store to pick up day old or expired food that is going in the trash to feed to my animals, and there is no shortage of it, in fact I only take a small percentage of it, I could fill a pickup truck full most nights...

Either way a plant based diet is what we're built for.

You can say it again, doesn't make it true...

True omnivores don't have pets, or find other animals cute.

What is with the red herring fallicies? What does having a pet or finding an animal cute have to do with our biological digesting system?

What do you mean 'true omnivores' don't have pets? Says who? I am in fact a 'true omnivore' as I eat my fair share of plant and animal matter but I have pets as do many other people,kind of destroys your claim...

We can't digest meat very well, if you lived entirely on animal products you would have a lot of health issues

Yes, we are not carnivores and thus our diet should not consist of only meats, that is why we are omnivores...

but you can eat as much fruit as you want and you'll never get ill from it, provided it is clean and hasn't been covered in chemicals of course. Which doesn't have anything to do with the fruit itself, only the way it has been grown.

This is not true, you can in fact get sick from too much fruit especially fruits high in fiber that can cause poor mineral absorption issues and abdominal blockage issues... And if you ate a fruit only diet you would likely have health issues as well...

And if you think standing up for animals and spreading this message is propaganda then what do you call the laughing cow ads? The smiling farm animals on yoghurt packets?

propaganda : information, especially of a biased or misleading nature, used to promote or publicize a particular political cause or point of view.

Based on the above definition of propaganda, yes I do believe the site you linked fits said description...

Ads featuring laughing cows are a type of anthropomorphization and in this case silly advertising, not sure where you are going with that...

What exactly do vegans gain from going against the grain and talking about these things?

There is a difference between simply being a vegans and when one takes the steps to promote and convince others to change their ways to coincide... Once you take the step and promote change with comments like cute animals or fainting at the site of blood, you are playing on emotions to promote your agenda, that is propaganda...

As for the chart, I see we are back at the 'frugivore' thing... The image appears to depict a chimpanzee set of teeth, and although a chimps diet is primarily plant matter they do in fact eat animal proteins and they even hunt and kill monkeys to eat making them omnivores eating both animal and plant matter... If we look up the definition of frugivore, we will see that the word covers both herbivores and omnivores, and since chimps do in fact eat meat as well as other animal proteins they are thus still omnivores even if you place them in the frugivore category of omnivores as yet another red herring fallacy distraction from the topic at hand...

But, once again we are off topic as we are talking about humans not chimps, although we are similar to chimps we are not chimps and deviate in many ways from chimps but we are still both omnivores even if you try to apply another name to hide that fact...

 

[Athaid]

I don't need to write another long reply, I'm not going to try and convince you any longer, clearly you are stuck in your ways. I know the truth, and I know that what I am doing is right, and one day everyone will see that. We have to change, we're killing the world. We're killing ourselves. Animal agriculture has a terrible effect on our enviroment, you can deny it all you want, but it's the truth. By the way some people do eat only fruit and they're very healthy, it's what we're designed to eat, not stomach and artery clogging meat. So believe what you want, but don't try to justify the consuming of animal products, there is no justification, unless you're stranded on a desert Island or being held at gunpoint. It's completely unnesessary.

(I am on mobile so there may be spelling error's)

 

[Birdy Buddy]

Hey,
I started a thread on making your own feed because I don't want to use commercial feed, as it usually contains soy, or GMO. But after reading the replies I got, and reading a few different things online, I realised how complicated it was. So if anyone knows any GMO and soy free chicken feed which is available in the UK, or Ireland that would be a huge help. Thanks

I was also wondering when chicken food shopping lately why some formulas claimed to be soy free or GMO free. I think it's just a trend and not anything to do with the relative wholesomeness of soy protein vs other sources. In the US, most soy is GMO so it can't be labeled "Organic" by law. The chicken food labeled organic is soy free by default and not because soy is evil.
Personally I don't care if myself or 'my chickens eat organic or not because GMO feed likely uses less pesticide when grown. It's often the greener option. Organic does not mean no pesticides were used. There is a lot of demand from the organic milk producers to use non GMO feed so the price of organic feed is rising sharply. No person or animal was ever sickened or harmed eating GMO feed. Organic is a multibillion dollar industry now and their lobby loves to vilify GMO so 'big' organic can make more money. I'm the original northern Californian earthy hippy and even I have lost faith in the "organic" movement. Organic is way over rated now and not worth the extra money anymore.

 

[Curand]

It seems this topic has strayed a bit. That being said, I am and have been actively looking for a non GMO and soy free feed available in my area (Minnesota) for some time. It is not that options do not exist. Both Nutrina and Pruina have GMO free products that still contain soy, but rather the nutritionists that work for the two coops that produce GMO and soy free feeds available will NOT answer my questions. Is there anyone that has used Natures Grown Organics from Wisconsin recently? If so, can you share your experience. My major concern is they state that you should not provide supplemental calcium in any form. That is contrary to almost all feed manufactures and publications that I have have delved into, ever! I would also say, without taking a position other than an abundance of caution, that there is mounting evidence that soy, although a great source of protein, can and or does transfer plant estrogen to eggs as well as impact those with soy allergies.