Golden cuckoo....questions

[whatthecluck]

So talk golden cuckoo to me. I would love to see others pics and know what you are crossing to get the gold barring to further.
I have a broody hen "Ruby" (not pictured here...she wasnt in the mood for photos today lol) setting upon 8 eggs right now (none of her own eggs). I hadnt thought of breeding but nature called and I **had** to slip some eggs under her of course!
My WaldenRoo is a wheaton maran/cuckoo maran cross and is our only roo at the moment. Though I put 6 various eggs under her from BikerBabeRules...I did let her keep 2 of ours one which I hope will further out the golden barring if it hatches etc. If no I may try again.
Two of my hens that are in with him are my BCM "Violet" who lays the most incredible eggs...thick shelled and beautiful color. I put one of her eggs in the mix so that would be a BCM/wheaton/cuckoo chick...likely dark right? And dark layer if it were to be a pullet. Then I have *charlotte* my Welsummer with the pearl legs/beak. It is possible that she is a pure Welsummer but her eyeliner wasnt as apparent that I can see in her baby pics...which is why I think she is a Welsummer/Wheaton maran cross the more I am researching (and by the parental possibilities she could have been Welsummer/Welsummer or Wheaton/Welsummer too). So if I cross WaldenRoo with Charlotte will it further out the golden barring?
Heres some pics:

My cuckoo/wheaton maran cross all growned up

WaldenWoo the Roo:

and here is Charlotte...though laying an egg at the moment...her legs are pearl not yellow

"Charlotte says hi! from her nesting box"

So who can show me pics of their golden cuckoo progressions? I am curious to see how its being done and how they are coming out. I love the golden barring personally.
Can you show me your golden cuckoos eggs too?

**edited title

 

[whatthecluck]

OK...no replies..I searched and found threads. Kind of bummed that no one responded...was just curious if anyone wove anything but cuckoo/wheaton through their GCMs at any point with any luck on the barring or if it is a splotchy mess. I found other pics buried throughout the site. Guess I will see for myself as I dont have a wheaton hen at the moment to hatch from my roo.
I should add that this is a total barn experiment for me...not as though I am selling to anyone. Starting to wonder if someone was appalled at the thought that I would let my hen sit on anything unpure lol.

My Welsummer/maran hens eggs are absolutely gorgeous so I will be happy if I hatch a pullet from my partialGCM roo with her just because I am hoping for more really dark eggs.

 

[Krys109uk]

I have been re-creating golden cuckoo copying the French birds. These are ER birds. I don't think one can get to French type golden cuckoo from cuckoo X wheaten.

a BCM/wheaton/cuckoo chick...likely dark right?

Yes, your male on copper blacks ought to gave dark chicks. Copper blacks ought to be gold birchen, (ER/ER), & your male ought to be extended black & wheaten, (E/eWh). Thus their offspring ought to be E/ER or ER/eWh in the region of half of all of these also being barred.

Then I have *charlotte* my Welsummer with the pearl legs/beak. It is possible that she is a pure Welsummer but her eyeliner wasnt as apparent that I can see in her baby pics...which is why I think she is a Welsummer/Wheaton maran cross the more I am researching

I don't really know. She is not technically a welsumer if she does not have yellow legs.
I don't think I've done a wild type (e+) X wheaten (eWh) without the presence of restrictor or pattern genes. The crosses I've done, Buff Orpington (eWh) onto silver grey Dorking (e+) gave chicks with e+ type appearance but feathered up more like the wheaten father.
Also, I've seen birds which appear to be intermediate between e+ & eWh so I think, personally, I'd expect a male French Wheaten Marans crossed onto a Welsumer to, probably, have a few more of the male's characteristics than white legs.​

 

[whatthecluck]

interesting! Thank you! Charlotte could actually be Wheaton/Welsummer as the wheaton and welsummers ran together (both hens and roos of both breeds in the same run) so perhaps that is why she looks the way she does? I thought pure Welsummers could have the pearl beak and legs in addition to yellow? If not then she is definitely the cross of the two. Her eggs are gorgeous....very dark deep brown with hints of a reddish tone in them.
Would love to see pics of your golden cuckoos if you have them handy to see how these look after several generations. You say re-creating? So they were once a breed and brought back? I see on the French site that they are listed as a current breed. Was it gone and now back? Good thing I am too busy with young children and am just raising for our family...I can see how this could be a very time consuming hobby for me in achieving different outcomes with the birds the more I read the more birds I want to incubate

~best

 

[Krys109uk]

Charlotte could actually be Wheaton/Welsummer as the wheaton and welsummers ran together (both hens and roos of both breeds in the same run) so perhaps that is why she looks the way she does?

I'm afraid I can't see Charlotte's colouring terribly well in the pics. She looks sweet sitting on her nest.

French wheaten Marans are supposed to have feathered legs; this is a dominant trait. I assume Charlotte does not have feathered legs. In the absence of melanising genes wheaten is claimed to be dominant to duckwing (as in welsumers); sometimes it is said to be incompletely dominant. I'd assume a wheaten (with no other mutant genes) X duckwing with Mh (welsumer) would show more in ways other than white legs. I am assuming by "pearl legs" you are referring to white legs? White skin is dominant to yellow skin. Did you see Charlotte's mother, if so what colour were her legs? Did you see the male welsumer in the pen, if so what colour legs did he have?

You say re-creating? So they were once a breed and brought back? I see on the French site that they are listed as a current breed. Was it gone and now back?

Golden cuckoo is a current variety of Marans in France. That colour is rare even in France. There are no Golden Cuckoo Marans in USA which have been brought from Europe so Golden Cuckoo Marans over here would have to be re-created. It is pretty easy using existing Marans colours of copper black & cuckoo.

I'm afraid I have no photos to hand. If it helps I'll PM some pics to you when I get around to taking pics.....it isn't something I get around to very often & usually I assume people will have forgotten all about it by the time I do take them.​

 

[whatthecluck]

Quote:
I'm afraid I can't see Charlotte's colouring terribly well in the pics. She looks sweet sitting on her nest.

French wheaten Marans are supposed to have feathered legs; this is a dominant trait. I assume Charlotte does not have feathered legs. In the absence of melanising genes wheaten is claimed to be dominant to duckwing (as in welsumers); sometimes it is said to be incompletely dominant. I'd assume a wheaten (with no other mutant genes) X duckwing with Mh (welsumer) would show more in ways other than white legs. I am assuming by "pearl legs" you are referring to white legs? White skin is dominant to yellow skin. Did you see Charlotte's mother, if so what colour were her legs? Did you see the male welsumer in the pen, if so what colour legs did he have?

You say re-creating? So they were once a breed and brought back? I see on the French site that they are listed as a current breed. Was it gone and now back?

Golden cuckoo is a current variety of Marans in France. That colour is rare even in France. There are no Golden Cuckoo Marans in USA which have been brought from Europe so Golden Cuckoo Marans over here would have to be re-created. It is pretty easy using existing Marans colours of copper black & cuckoo.

I'm afraid I have no photos to hand. If it helps I'll PM some pics to you when I get around to taking pics.....it isn't something I get around to very often & usually I assume people will have forgotten all about it by the time I do take them.​

I would love a pm at any time with pics! You sound well educated and thats one thing I love about this board. I am still learning a lot. There is a wealth of great knowledge here at all levels and I find genetics very itneresting. Not enough time to play with breeding for more than fun now though. Still have a lot to read.
None of my chickens have feathered legs. And you have me further stumped....I had no idea that the golden cuckoo came out of the copper black at all! I thought it was crossed back and forth with Wheaton (and cuckoo marans). I obviously need to read more!
And Ack! The more I am reading your posts the more I am wondering what my roo is lol! I thought I had finally figured that he was wheaton/cuckoo...as cuckoo hen was the mom....but the roo choices that ran with her were BCM, WM, Blue Ameraucana (ruled out) or Welsummer. Hmmmmmm.......just when I thought I had footing on who was in my group....now I am wondering if he is BCM/cuckoo?
Well at the very least any of his hatchlings should have a darker egg...this at least I KNOW

Back to reading lol.

 

[redhen]

Heres my Golden Roo.(i ordered hatching eggs from a breeder).
I have always wondered how they made golden cuckoos...interesting thread..

 

[Krys109uk]

Whatthecluck, your copper black Marans & wheaten Marans would normally be expected to have feathered legs. That being dominant traits if the father was either of the above mentioned varieties one could usually expect the offspring to have leg feathering at least to some degree.

Dark cuckoo marans are most often extended black. Extended black is dominant to the other e-alleles (birchen, wheaten, duckwing & brown). By crossing to another colour melanising genes will have been lost allowing gold leakage. French Golden cuckoos are most often barring on gold birchen (ER) or, accoring to the French site, sometimes on extended black (E), presumably without melanisers. The pictures of the golden cuckoos on their webpage are ER.

Redhen, your male is probably made with wheaten. See the orange feathers in the wing triangle E & ER birds do not tend to have colour in the wing triangle.
A good few years ago a chap in US was trying to come up with a golden cuckoo like Marans from British type cuckoo marans crossed & re-crossed onto other birds. Initially he was confused & thought he was making crele (which the name for the colour of cuckoo on duckwing e+ birds). Another problem, when he started making these birds, true copper black birds had not yet been sent over from Europe to USA so the best birds for re-creating the colour were not readily available in US at that time. So, unfortunately he did not have the correct genes for making either crele or French golden cuckoo. There are many, many of these bird's decendents in USA & they are pretty. By now other people will have cottoned on just how easy it is to make Golden Cuckoo Marans & they are probably also available.