Goodbye, dream of Silkies... not kosher, sorry. :-(

[Flock Leader]

How does the mashgich tell whether an egg is fertilised?
Does he examine it under a microscope?

No, no.

If there are no traces of blood inside an egg, it's OK. As I said I'm certain all my eggs are fertilized (ours is a small flock, and we have two "working" roosters) but as I collect them fresh and check every egg for blood spots, and find none, they are OK to eat, kosher-wise.

 

[Ashburnham]

But a blood spot is not an indication that an egg is fertile.
Blood spots can occur at random in all eggs.

 

[nok13]

ksahrut laws are made as laws, that is, it doesnt matter if it is fertile or not, the law says: do not use an egg with a blood spot since it COULD BE fertile so to prevent infractions of the law, all eggs with blood spots are not to be eaten. there is no room for discussion or debate because then there would be a debate on which stage of development the egg spot is in and whether or not at a particular stage u can or cannot eat it. think about having to cook and checking every egg spot to see if it is developing or not. same as the salmon cunundrum of scales. when a salmon or some other fish, cant remember name, is a baby fish it has no scales therefore theorectically it is not kosher. but as an adult it has scales therefore it is kosher so now there are some sects that wont eat salmon because of this!! (no more bagels and lox hahah)... and that is why there are usually more then one sign for an animal to be not kosher or kosher so that there is no arguement (a camel chews its cud but doesnt have a split hoof but a toenail (its not a hoof) therefore not kosher. a pig splits its hoof but doesnt regurgitate. the discussions are endless.

to gargoyl.e, that was an amazing clip... my father is really in to jewish heritage in the states, and there is alot of info now about jewish cowboys (in tuscon no less) , he himself has family that were rum runners during the prohabition (they were minor mafia in the jewish mafia in new york before the irish and italians took over) so this will be of interest to him.

btw, thats one of the reasons why all the kibbutzim in israel were agricultural in the beginning (now we are all industrial /tourism oriented, almost no agric. ) , to get away from the 'stigma' of city/middle man etc.the idea was to feel the earth ; my
grandmother was horribly disappointed that i married a 'farmer' as my previous husband was, of course, a kibbutznik who from age 16 worked the fields (cotton and vegetables and winter wheat) and didnt ever go to college. so her dream of me marrying a lawyer doctor or whatever was destroyed by marrying a jewish redneck (literally from working in the desert fields)... my son is the same. and i was a goat herd for 10 years. (there went my college degree downt hte drain, or up in goat turds as it were). and present husband raised buffalo and never went passed 6 th grade.adn was a migrant worker from thailand for our very same fields..

and my first introduction to a chicken was in a jewish camp in maryland; i was a teenage nerd, bookworm, and loner, they put me in the 'worst' job in the camp apart from kitchen duty. i had to catch chickens, check for diseases, collect eggs, muck out the makeshift coop, and i was in seventh heaven . my parents are sure im a changeling cause apart from my dad raising pigeons on brooklyn rooftops, no one in either family ever had animals. and ive had kid goats in my bed with me....

bina

 

[LeslieDJoyce]

No, no.

If there are no traces of blood inside an egg, it's OK. As I said I'm certain all my eggs are fertilized (ours is a small flock, and we have two "working" roosters) but as I collect them fresh and check every egg for blood spots, and find none, they are OK to eat, kosher-wise.

But a blood spot is not an indication that an egg is fertile.
Blood spots can occur at random in all eggs.

This is very interesting! I DEFINITELY tell customers that our eggs are fertile ... they should have the choice about what they eat and deserve to be informed, IMO.

Of course Ashburnham is right, blood spots have nothing to do with the fertility of an egg, or even the development of a fertilized egg. When we got chickens a lot of people told us we shouldn't have roosters because then the eggs would be fertilized and therefore have the "gross blood spots in them." We have roosters, our eggs are fertile, I rarely see a blood spot, and those same people eat the eggs ... it is difficult to tell the difference between a fertilized and unfertilized egg unless you know what to look for.

That said, I can understand having a personal preference or law about eating eggs that are fertilized and/or have blood spots and/or have meat spots. But the three things aren't related.

 

[nok13]

at the time when kashrut laws were developed noone had access to microscopes etc, so that was what the laws were based on. also, blood is considered unclean. also there are laws governing when a woman can have sexual relations with her husband (and when she is considered 'unclean' , and it mostly involves checking to see there is no blood or other clood like discharge - sorry for the graphic discriptions- also, blood in meat is also considered 'not clean' therefore kosher slaughter involves draining the blood and also salting the meat. also, to be beyond the question of doubt, as anyone who eats kosher at home can tell you, meat is cooked well done to over done. no such thing as rare meat, although strangely enough ethiopian jews will eat the raw beef but kosher slaughtererd that is a ethiopian speiality.
so the rules were based on empirical evidence which at the time seemed logical: blood spot = developing embryo of chick= unclean and/or meat/

many of the rules make kitchens very complex places to work within, when u have to take in to consideration many differnt laws and regulations.
but unborn eggs are kosher and also a delicatesse (if u like those things). (unborn meanng eggs still inside the chicken at the time of slaughter.)go figure.
bina

 

[gabrielle1976]

I Think you could have silkies and sale there eggs to hatchers like us on byc and or sale there chicks to people for pets that would bring income from the birds thus they would be helping pay for there own upkeep , you could also scramble or hard boil there eggs and feed them back to them if you wished as you arnt eating the eggs or the chickens eatting the eggs . I hope you find a way to get some silkies as pets they are such awsome little chickens.

 

[Ashburnham]

thanks for the explanations. Good luck with the silkies. xxx

 

[backyardcelia]

all so very interesting and thought provoking (and i have not yet watched video).
i've been wondering, maybe someone here may know or have come across something, about how hindu scholars (&/or other strict vegetarians) view the egg... (can/should they eat the unfertilized egg... i admit, that is the only reason i did not get a rooster. but who knows i may change my mind).
as far as keeping kosher, i had heard there was also something about removing the squigglies (sorry, i can't recall actual name... chalizi... chalaza?) before consuming?

 

[Flock Leader]

Yes, of course blood as of itself is prohibited, whether the egg is fertilized or not, but since I assume blood spots occur more frequently in fertilized eggs, I watch mine with a beady eye. Again, never had this problem yet.

 

[nok13]

darn, i was visiting an agricultural school near my kibbutz (we used to trade animals when i had the petting zoo); i hadnt seen the place in a while now that the youngest is pre army and out of school, so this guy at the farm has lots of the breeds that ive been reading about here, it used to be that everyone only had polish, red jungle, rhode island and silkies... now he has lots of interesting breeds; anyhow, he also has silkies and whatever, all the birds there are pets, not for eating the eggs, but i had wanted to ask about the whole 'question'... at any rate, all the petting zoos here, whether they are super religious or not, keep silkies and various other types of fowls... but of course the eggs are for fun, not eaten (educational only, so health reasons blablabla)...
as for squigglies, ha.. i will ask the mashgich in our dining hall today, he is the final word when it comes to food and kashrut... so i will be back with answers hopefully today.

stay tuned...