Goodbye, dream of Silkies... not kosher, sorry. :-(

[Flock Leader]

i can understand the problem with dog food not being kosher l'pesach cause they eat in the house and there is the danger of chemetz,and there is also some stipulation for enjoyment in feeding a pet so although u can feed non kosher regular food (most veterinary cat foods have pork in them and that is fine, as long as u use a plastic spoon and special dish) but why would milk or an egg be chemetz, frm what the cow eats or the chicken? again, in processing in a plant, there is the chance of chemetz but i couldnt understand why, for instance, when we had the petting zoo, all the animals had to get kosher l' pesach (l'ochlei kidniot= so at least they could get soy and other legumes)... do u know how much troubel it is to change diet on an animal in a large zoo, or to stop feeding grains for a week and then start again (colic, problems with the rumen, etc. not to mention that, like with humans, matza causes constipation and other complications among many animals...

well, in my house, same same. we have matza and the animals get regular food. but for my friends i thought i would try. but probably it wouldnt work because they couldnt be certain that i was feeding kosher t'pesach..

and this is the time when double yoke eggs become very expensive, for all the cholesterol filled foods...... im stocking up on eggs, and then the chickens will get all the left over matza in water for after wards when people toss theirs out, if they dont continue to use them.

what happens to your laying rate when u switch for the week?
.

The problem is having chametz in one's possession during Pesach, even if it's stored outside (like we store our chicken feed). Even when the chametz is sold so it isn't officially yours, you can't use it during Pesach.

I don't remember anything special happened to our layers, but then we rely heavily on free-range, grain is only a supplement.

 

[nok13]

ah right. i forgot that it is the possession of ... also.....

 

[missnu01]

Other breeds of chicken have extra toes. As far as their appearance I would bet Polish, Appenzellers(sp?) frizzles, showgirls, etc etc. would also be banished. I thought silkies aren't reliable layers anyway. My grandparents were orthodox - maybe they never knew of exotic breeds but I think if it clucked and laid eggs, they would have considered it a chicken and eaten if.

Faverolles also have extra toes. I don't understand why an extra toe matters. It is still just a chicken. It wasn't crossed with anything else to make it have 5 toes, it just happens that way. I dont' understand why this chicken is alright, but this other chicken isn't.

 

[nok13]

it only matters if u belong to a specific religioun that has laws about food/eating: muslems dont eat pork, jews have a large body of laws concerning how, what , when and when not to eat, based on very specific things such as scales, hooves, rumens (cud chewers), carrioun eaters (making an animal non kosher), and also small things like toes on a chicken. the same reason that for a christian a type of cross has a specific meaning (there are various types of crosses, shapes, etc and each sect has its own types, preferences, etc)...
so those that need to know, usually know, and if they dont know, they have someone to ask who does know, as a matter of fact,its a profession. the laws arent just concerned with scales and toes but with many other things like when a fast day starts and when does it end, who is allowed to fast and who must not fast (pregnant women, ill people, children under a certain age, etc), when u are born in to a religioun these things are second nature, but to outsiders they seem rediculous (and to some of us born in to the religioun who dont follow it so exactly.... but that is the way of it...)...
in jewish kosher law, shellfish is not allowed. my son follows these laws, and as far as he is concerned eating a shrimp is the equivalent of eating a spider or bug (which i have eaten , in my husband's village in thailand btw)...

 

[Flock Leader]

I just wanted to update and say that all my going back and forth and back and forth with the issue of whether to get Silkies or not, resolved in getting 4 Silkie eggs from my husband as a birthday present; my 4 Silkie chicks just hatched two days ago. I have two black, one grey, and one white, and they are going to be much loved pets, and hopefully, if we have at least one male and one female, we can breed them. We have so many pullets this year, and so many will stay with us as layers, that really, we can afford to keep a couple of Silkies as pets. ) I'm very happy!

 

[Felbeth]

Hi,
Thanks for your post. I had no idea that silkies are not kosher. Would you happen to know about any other breeds of chicken that are not kosher? Is our Easter Egger kosher? I am now concerned that my blue eggs are not kosher. Thanks again, Felicia

 

[holm25]

i did not know that

 

[Flock Leader]

Hi,
Thanks for your post. I had no idea that silkies are not kosher. Would you happen to know about any other breeds of chicken that are not kosher? Is our Easter Egger kosher? I am now concerned that my blue eggs are not kosher. Thanks again, Felicia

Felicia, as far as I know from all my research and correspondence with rabbinical authorities, the "deal-breaker" of a chicken's kosher status is the extra toe. So, Silkies, Faverolls (sp?), Sultans, and any other 5-toed breed isn't considered 100% kosher. If your chicken has 4 toes it's OK.

 

[elch]

that is why kosher animals are slaughtered and inspected by a mashgich (sorry, havent a clue what the english version of the term is, but for those that dont know, it is a person who represents the rabbinute , who make sure that the various laws pertinent to jewish religioun are followed. anyhow, the mashgih is a 'watcher over' all things concerning food: so in our hotel kitchen we have a mashgiah who makes sure that we check every two eggs to be sure they werent fertilized, therefore rending them non kosher for eating (meat/non meat problem), makes sure that our veggies are washed and cleaned thoroughly to be sure there are no bugs, and of course every kosher butcher has a mashgih to certify that the animals not only were slaughtered according to jewish laws, but were kosher to begin with (no broken bones, no growths, no illness, no extra toes, or anything else that is considered NOT kosher (which is where the expression 'things dont seem kosher' comes from btw). so for isntance on our kibbutz, some of us will take the chickens that were deemed NOT kosher before slaughter (broken legs, or other wierd things that dont affect our health but arent kosher) and we will take them , otherwise they are usually dispensed with (given to non jewish employees i.e. foriegn workers like thais, or to animal owners, or to folks like me who dont keep kosher at all.)
to most non jewish and many jewish americans (westerners/europeans) that all sounds so wierd, but in israel, its par for the course, even those of us that dont keep kosher know and are used to all the various regulations. it makes life slightly /very complicated but its a matter of getting used to things.

many many jewish farmers here keep fancy chickens, but mostly keep them separate from the 'baladi' types (the arabic/mediterrenean black./red yard chickens ) who most people keep for their eggs. if anyone wants to eat their own chickens they have to bring it to a kosher slaughterhouse. same for lamb, goat, beef.
interesting , i will have to ask friends (all of whom are old geezers from morroco, kurdistan, and some from european background) who are all religious practicing (spharadim/ashkenazi orthodox/// those of u who understand what im talking about), what they do, as many of them , besides raising goats/sheep, also keep fancy fowls: pea fowl, guinea fowl, ducks, geese... for their own pleasure and also eggs .
fancy chickens are now becoming a really big thing here also, it used to be only the 'old geezers; and childrens' petting zoos taht kept and raised unusual fowl which was considered a rich man's hobby. chickens, the baladi arab chicken, were for eggs, and/or the white battery chicken coop chicken.

, now , besides the silkies and cochins, all the otehr breeds are coming in to the country, and more of us 'backyard' less rural folks are raising them. which raises the interesting point of kashrut. (my kibbutz no longer has milk cows, egg chickens, meat chickens , only orchards and factories and unfortunately even our kids are forgetting that milk, cheese eggs and shnitzel come from animals..

well, long as usual, i will have to investigate... hope this is of interest

bina

the the poster who queried about the unusualness of kashrut (kosher ) and animals and food but there is actually huge amounts of dos/donts pertaining to animals in jewish law, some of which i posted above, a few posts ago, howevr, there are lots of additional 'question/answers' that jewish religious leaders deal with in connection to animals including the one from a few years ago if it is breaking jewish religious law by raising pigs on jewish land, even if the pigs are for 'bomb squad' use and not for food... (google for kibbutz lahav and pigs)...


israel

You explain things very well. Just one small correction. The reason we don't eat eggs with blood spots is either because there is a chick that started developing or just because we can't eat blood. Fertilized eggs are kosher.

 

[elch]

Btw wild duck eggs & wild goose eggs are not kosher because they are predatory, only domesticated duck n goose eggs are kosher.

Predatory birds can be kosher. Eating habits that make a bird not kosher, is only if it kills it's prey in a certain way. It has been debated since the middle ages what that way is.