Goose lovers – please help!!

[Iain Utah]

You guys are awesome, thanks!!!!!

The lady has been doing a good job liquidating her chickens. She started liquidating last month, and has sold/given away 200 chickens so far, her entire muscovy flock, many geese, and most of her small animals. She is very sad that she has not been able to place her 40 emus. I don't know the 1st thing about emus... but I guess I could post this on the emu section.

Originally, I was only planning to keep 2-3 dozen at my place and the rest at the local avian sanctuary. But after visiting the facility, I am starting to feel like it is better for the birds for them to all come to my place. I have plenty of space, but hope I will be able to get help with feed costs... as I am sure it will add it up quickly.

At least one person who read this thread has contacted her directly today, and that is fine. However, I would prefer people either go through Shannonmeans or me. Since I have committed myself to this mission, I want to make sure the effort is organized, that communication does not get lost, and that the lady does not get more overwhelmed than she already is. She and I talk 1-2 times per day, so I can flow the information easily to her.

 

[Iain Utah]

Wait a minute. What prevents her from getting NPIP certified? It's simple. Unless her birds can't pass the blood test?

Some sort of hint about where she is located would help. California is an enormous state.

Health papers are required for Oregon, but there is no inspection at the border heading north--- just mentioning it in passing, not advocating breaking the law.

California has privatized their NPIP program, so you have to pay a private vet to do the farm visit perform tests. Then, you pay a fee to the Cali NPIP. It currently takes 2-3 months to get certified, and since they know she is going out of business and her flock is leaving state, they will not certify her under these circumstances, as they said it is only for those actively engaged in ongoing Cali business.

She is in the central coastal area, about 1 hour south of San Jose.

While I too cannot advocate breaking the law (I am an attorney, by the way), I have traveled with my horses all over country (with proper paperwork) but with the exception of Florida, I rarely stop at the entry weigh station. Half the time they are not even open. lol I've never been pulled over or questioned. Certainly, if someone were to take a small amount in a suv vehicle, how would one even know there is livestock inside. Just sayin'.

yay you should do craigslist they should hopefully sell fast there! thats were i bought my ducklings! i think its wonderful that you are helping these geese! i really hope this works! i agree that they shouldnt end up as dinner! they deserve to live! i am keeping my fingers crossed for u!

She has listed on craigslist, but I'm afraid she has saturated her local market.

 

[1MrsMagoo]

California has privatized their NPIP program, so you have to pay a private vet to do the farm visit perform tests. Then, you pay a fee to the Cali NPIP. It currently takes 2-3 months to get certified, and since they know she is going out of business and her flock is leaving state, they will not certify her under these circumstances, as they said it is only for those actively engaged in ongoing Cali business.

She is in the central coastal area, about 1 hour south of San Jose.

While I too cannot advocate breaking the law (I am an attorney, by the way), I have traveled with my horses all over country (with proper paperwork) but with the exception of Florida, I rarely stop at the entry weigh station. Half the time they are not even open. lol I've never been pulled over or questioned. Certainly, if someone were to take a small amount in a suv vehicle, how would one even know there is livestock inside. Just sayin'.



She has listed on craigslist, but I'm afraid she has saturated her local market.

I have had tons of eggs and live birds come to me in the mail: Not one had any sort of paperwork or NPIP number on the shipping container/box. My postmaster has never said a word about any of it. All the postal service seems to care is that their fees are paid and the birds are shipped in the proper box by the proper service.

You are correct about hauling the poultry in a vehicle. If you don't have a big trailer, they won't give you a second glance. I wouldn't even worry about it and if you have the stock tested once it enters your state I highly doubt anybody will bother you about breaking the law.

I believe as long as the birds are healthy and the recipients properly quarantine the incoming stock everything will be okay. If I were to get a bird, all I would have to do is call the state vet and he will come test it for me: No charge. He does not ask where it came from...the only thing he needs to know is that it is new, came from a non-NPIP flock, and needs tested. If anyone is particularly worried about it they could pay the California vet fees to have that particular bird tested for the necessary paperwork before moving it over state lines.

I am glad she has been able to place so many chickens: They would be far easier since many more people keep them.

I am positive that the folks on the Emu and Ostrich threads will be happy to help with those birds.

Once the geese arrive at your place, maybe you could post a Paypal address where we could donate to sponsor a bird, buy a bag of feed, etc.

Again, good work and thanks for taking this on.

 

[Iain Utah]

Thanks, magoo. Excellent advice. I believe someone is working up a feeding program and making arrangement directly with feed store for people to help with feed. Shannon is helping with taking on the emus and chickens on the appropriate thread once we get better info from the lady.

 

[Iain Utah]

After a good night's sleep and mental processing, I have drafted the following plan. The biggest question I have is how many birds can fit in my rig? I have a 3/4 ton suburban and a 16' x 6' horse/stock trailer (with solid center divider). Anyone have a clue? Also, my feed estimates are very rough so not sure those reflect true anticipated costs. Any and all input is much appreciated!

Mission Plan:

To assist Cali based breeder who is going of out business
To place 100 dewlap Toulouse geese in pet homes, instead of being sent to meat auction
To transport 75+ geese from Cali to Utah to foster care for approximately two months
To package & ship geese around country to appropriate homes
To find direct placement of remaining geese

** there are also 40-50 african geese that need placement too **

Breakdown of Plan:

1. Separate & ID birds for relocation to Utah; estimate 40 buffs, 30 greys, 5 africans
2. Have dvm perform required tests for health certificate to obtain Utah entry permit
3. Travel to Cali from Utah with trailer (860 miles each way) to pick up birds and return
4. Provide foster care for birds until able to place in new homes (approx. 8 weeks)
5. Package & ship birds to new homes when weather conditions allow

Costs:

1. DVM testing/health certificate – quoted $1,000; trying to get better price
2. Transport to Utah - $650 gas (plus $50 for bedding/food)
3. Feed costs during fostering - $15 per day for 70 (I plan to personally keep 5 birds)
4. Shipping costs - approx. $180 for pair.

Total to get to Utah: $1,700
Feed costs for two months: $900-$1,000

 

[1MrsMagoo]

Iain:

Sounds like a very well laid out plan. My goodness, the California vet is sure not going to make this easy though: May I be the first to say OUCH!
If testing cost that much everywhere, nobody would do it unless they showed birds. We would have a full fledged poultry black market and be smuggling birds like they used to do moonshine. I can see it now......
SHERIFF: "What have you got in all those boxes in the back of your vehicle ma'am?"
ME:"Just some clothes, books, and things I am taking to my Aunt in Ohio"
From the back seat: "Baahk, baahk, cluck"
SHERIFF:Raises his eyebrow and says, "Since when do clothes sound like a chicken? Get out of your car please."


At any rate, it sounds like you have estimated most of the costs. What about extra feeders, bedding, waterers, or fencing needed on your end for the two months? Do you have a fenced in area for these guys to live in for the two months? Is NPIP testing free in your state?
I am not trying to second guess you, just wanted to brain-storm and make sure all the bases are covered.

Also, have you thought about doing a save the geese charity auction? Perhaps, in addition to money, those of us who wish to help could sell hatching eggs, or craft items, chicken saddles, whatever we can do and donate the proceeds to help defray the costs of this venture. We could utilize the buy-sell-trade threads here and maybe eBay as well. Although this is not a tax deductible gift, it may be an easier one for people to make for the folks who are cash strapped.

Once this is an official go, we could start having weekly benefit auctions until all the birds are placed. Just a thought: Maybe not a great one, but it may help a bit. Too bad I'm not closer: I LOVE to bake. We could do a bake sale and have a big sign that said, This Bake Sale is for The Birds! and put photos of the geese around. The banner alone may cause some people to stop...lol.

 

[Iain Utah]

Magoo, I value your input very much. Glad that you are helping with brainstorming! Very funny hypothetical you pose. And yes, there is a touch of sticker shock on the quote, but it breaks down to $10 per bird for 100 birds. When looked at in a per bird perspective, $10 gets you a hands on exam, blood drawn and sent to lab for 4 specific tests and a 30 day health certificate.

NPIP testing is negligible for my state, and if I ever ship hatching eggs, I will need it anyway.

I would love assistance with fund raising efforts!! When this idea was originally hatched, Shannon and I planned to split gas costs of then estimated $600. Then we realized we had to have an entry permit into Utah, which then more than doubled our original plan by factoring in the vet bill. I am prepared to personally pay up to the full $650+ for transporting them, and then take ultimate financial responsibility for feeding them once here, but I really need help with the vet costs. I am hopeful that Best Friends Animal Sanctuary will make a nice donation (they were receptive when I spoke to them). I also plan to speak to Friends of Animals, a sizable local group for assistance.

As for my set up, other than putting up chicken wire over 3 panel gates and across stream, the initial 2 acre pasture fencing is done. Water is supplied by stream. I have a bunch of tubs, buckets, pots, etc. to use for feeders.

The spring fed stream runs along entire back fence line. It has natural shelter, but no secure lock up places for night. Here are pics I took mere minutes ago. My crossfence is just to the right of the panel gate in front of picture and goes down just to the left of our red covered bridge. The property line along back travels in front of the silver roofed barn where the thicker brush (and stream) is.

Here are my africans in the stream:


Currently, my africans (and ducks) can freely access all of our 9 acre horse property, coop area... and can even cross road to visit the house which sits on another 1.5 acres (which they do... all the time). As there is a nice grazing community area by coop where we feed from, we would probably allow them access into that area (another acre), which then gains them access to the main horse pasture, unless I put wire fencing on panels. However, since that is the route to the house, I would also have to fence off panel gates along front of property.

Here is a better overview of horse property:

 

[1MrsMagoo]

Iain: I think the geese will love it there and be bummed to leave after two months! Having so much available grazing will help a lot with keeping the feed bill down too.

With horses all around, I bet that helps keep the four legged predator count down quite a bit. I have noticed that racoons, possums, and skunks here never cut through the horse pasture: The cows sometimes, but rarely the horse. Since those geese are such big birds and will be in such large numbers that I bet you have little to worry predator-wise unless they show up in large numbers.

I laugh to imagine what would happen to the lone raccoon who sneaks up on the geese hoping for an easy meal: Bet he wouldn't try that twice!

I suppose $10 each isn't horrible for the vet if you break it down that way. Does the NPIP testing cost as much as the certificate of health?

I really hope that one or both of the shelters, societies will give you some help financially. It is also great of you to be willing to take on the transportation and feed costs yourself. I took care of 13 neglected goats for several months once, so know how the costs can add up quickly. However, a good number of people here will help in addition to those who have already said they would do so. Hopefully, we can whittle that number down a good bit a couple dollars at a time.

 

[CelticOaksFarm]

Hey Iain, sorry haven't chatted much today. Strung another 300' of fencing today and beat tired now. We have about enclosed the entire property now which is a huge relief.

Gonna shower, dinner bed for the kids and catch up. Have some stuff to send your way too.

Love seeing the geese in the stream.

 

[Iain Utah]

Magoo, thanks very much. I originally planned to deliver them to my local sanctuary, but after I visited the facility, decided they would be much happier at my place.

In Cali, the npip is a fee on top of vet visit and takes 2-3 months to process. Getting the health certificates is the only way to go.

Celtic, no worries. Been busy doing yard work today myself. Thanks for the compliments. The one swimming towards me is eBay, my gander with extra personality hatched from your eggs. The other two smaller ones are his sisters. Alpha gander has pretty much claimed both girls, but I plan to get at least two female Africans from the lady for eBay and my favorite boy, no. 1.

Have more good news to report. The rescue group in Cali is networking to raise funds for the effort and I placed a few more geese with local contacts. Surprisingly, they all want African juveniles, which is fine since the lady has 13. So far, if all works out, there are now 30 birds placed according to my list. Hope we can continue to keep the momentum going!