GRAPHIC PICS of my day learning to caponize

[LindaB220]

Results of 5 Attempts Sat Mar 22 2014


Incomplete - 2 due to bleeding < I thought was too much.. both survived>
Slip's - Two #3 on the Lt #5 the String made the disconnection however the testie disintegrated on the extraction
Completed - One - and unfortunatly the surgurie was a success but the patient expired. ( broken string and other issues taking too long.)
Survived - 4/5

Lessons Learned -

1. Deeper/longer First Cut Listen for the Air whoosh ... I wasnt getting thru with the cuts i made on 8 week old birds at Cora's.
2. Have Back up String
3. Have Bigger table for bigger birds. ( I'm going to try the Ironing board. Wooden and sturdy)
4. re-Organize Tool trey - Threaded tool got tangled - then tools on the floor..
5. Membranes are Tough and there are 2 to get to the testes
6. Use Alcohol to disinfect the work trey. < problem with H2O2 causing bubbling of blood - makes for poor vision in the hole. especially if they jump/ or struggle and tools fall to floor>
7. For larger birds adjust restraints. I was gifted some 2 1/2" Velcro straps. One of the slips was due to a sudden jerk on extraction. it was disconnected and i was using the grabber end of the scalpel and it busted the teste when he jumped.
8. Dont drink too much Coffee..
9. Densely Feathered Birds - Try Plucking and let rest.. Pluck another then do the first.. These White Birds <dono breed> are very thickly Feathered! and inexperience of plucking and how to < like 3 at a time> and getting the right spot plucked for the tissue pull, Caused me probably 30 minutes or more on the #4 that expired on the table.
10. Forgive my self. For the mistakes i make while Learning.
11. Get 'em young!

Questions.. to discover..

1. how to use / tie string so it dosent break.. ( wish i'd remembered that carolina fish hook tie dad taught me.. thanks dad!)
2. how to mark slips.. so i can watch there progress

-- Thanks so much To Cora and Kassandrua for leading the workshop. To the attendee's and byc members. it really helps to share this with some one w.g.a.d.


----Debra Snook
ps.. I Have some photos but it may be a month b4 i can get them up loaded..

________
¸...¸ /__ /\ ___ / \__
,·´º o `·, /__/_/\_ / /____/\
```)¨(´´´ | | [1] | | [1]| | |[1] || |l±±±±
¸,.-·²°´ ¸,.-·~·~·-.,¸ `°²·-. :º°


Hey Debra, good stuff. I'm learning from you. I had to cancel the workshop so you're one up on me. I read old books by going to google/books and inputting capon and caponizing and poultry. LOTS of old free books. You mentioned the string. How long should each piece be? What's w.g.a.d.?

 

[Kassaundra]

Results of 5 Attempts Sat Mar 22 2014


Incomplete - 2 due to bleeding < I thought was too much.. both survived>
Slip's - Two #3 on the Lt #5 the String made the disconnection however the testie disintegrated on the extraction
Completed - One - and unfortunatly the surgurie was a success but the patient expired. ( broken string and other issues taking too long.)
Survived - 4/5

Lessons Learned -

1. Deeper/longer First Cut Listen for the Air whoosh ... I wasnt getting thru with the cuts i made on 8 week old birds at Cora's.
2. Have Back up String
3. Have Bigger table for bigger birds. ( I'm going to try the Ironing board. Wooden and sturdy)
4. re-Organize Tool trey - Threaded tool got tangled - then tools on the floor..
5. Membranes are Tough and there are 2 to get to the testes
6. Use Alcohol to disinfect the work trey. < problem with H2O2 causing bubbling of blood - makes for poor vision in the hole. especially if they jump/ or struggle and tools fall to floor>
7. For larger birds adjust restraints. I was gifted some 2 1/2" Velcro straps. One of the slips was due to a sudden jerk on extraction. it was disconnected and i was using the grabber end of the scalpel and it busted the teste when he jumped.
8. Dont drink too much Coffee..
9. Densely Feathered Birds - Try Plucking and let rest.. Pluck another then do the first.. These White Birds <dono breed> are very thickly Feathered! and inexperience of plucking and how to < like 3 at a time> and getting the right spot plucked for the tissue pull, Caused me probably 30 minutes or more on the #4 that expired on the table.
10. Forgive my self. For the mistakes i make while Learning.
11. Get 'em young!

Questions.. to discover..

1. how to use / tie string so it dosent break.. ( wish i'd remembered that carolina fish hook tie dad taught me.. thanks dad!)
2. how to mark slips.. so i can watch there progress

-- Thanks so much To Cora and Kassandrua for leading the workshop. To the attendee's and byc members. it really helps to share this with some one w.g.a.d.


----Debra Snook
ps.. I Have some photos but it may be a month b4 i can get them up loaded..

________
¸...¸ /__ /\ ___ / \__
,·´º o `·, /__/_/\_ / /____/\
```)¨(´´´ | | [1] | | [1]| | |[1] || |l±±±±
¸,.-·²°´ ¸,.-·~·~·-.,¸ `°²·-. :º°

Be careful about using alcohol on the tools you are using on the bird, it will sting. I would wipe off the tool w/ a quick swipe if using either the alcohol or the peroxide (for pain and for foaming control) off the tool before use.



I think it is important to point out Debra was working on older bigger birds, these are much harder and more challenging. She has done an awesome job on any age, but especially impressive that she is having success w/ the older birds so soon into learning.

 

[bbsnooks]

Be careful about using alcohol on the tools you are using on the bird, it will sting. I would wipe off the tool w/ a quick swipe if using either the alcohol or the peroxide (for pain and for foaming control) off the tool before use.



I think it is important to point out Debra was working on older bigger birds, these are much harder and more challenging. She has done an awesome job on any age, but especially impressive that she is having success w/ the older birds so soon into learning.
Ok thanks Kass...
maybe Iodine? or Silver water. I have both..

Yesterday at times it looked like a combination of the mad scientist and the three stooges.. and i was all three.. / 4
Dropping tools.. shifting table.. slipping restraints.. - that's what i mean about realizing after the fact what a good experience the w/s was.

when the threader's would fall on floor and i would dunk in h2o2 and then reinsert.. it was not good for visibility..
< i used 2 like chopsticks with a thread wound aroung the end - then un wind as i came around to the toop to cross them>..

I've just about to set up for today..
have been taking photo's and getting zip tie read next.. ( i forgot that step on 4 of them yesterday)

if i were a millionaire i would get some of the googe glasses.. <ohh cant wait till there 300$>
I think they record.. if we have a millionare.. on here please buy cora some so she can post a bird's eye view video.. for us all!!
then i might figure out the thread saw on the big birds...

ok.. work to be done..
Hi HO HI HO .. you know the rest..

 

[Ruthster55]

I am far from an expert at this, but in my trials I have found the two following non-surgery-related tactics to help:

1. Pre-pluck the boys you plan to do a few days in advance, rather than on surgery day. Let them back at food and water for a short time to get over the plucking (few hours or a day or two). This lessons their time on the operating table when it comes time to do business. Obviously this involves catching them etc. Cages/pens/empty rabbit hutch etc. are useful for this.

2. When you withhold food/water, use a small wire transfer cage, or an empty rabbit hutch. If they have ground contact, they will find something to ingest....

 

[bbsnooks]

Ok.. i was able to find camera cord.. here is a summary of results.
# 1 is half done
#2 marked on lower rt of orange card - did not have sugurie..
#3 the Lt T. was a slip.
#4 Both intact
#5 Lt T. disintegrated on exit Rt T. intact

Guitar Pic / and 3x5 note cards for size comparison.

 

[bbsnooks]

#3 and #5 <above> Large birds from previous post "results photo" w/ some of the barred rock's completed at w/s.
-----
Would any one know the White breed? below. . . they're the one's with very dense feathering.




This is my post op room above..
#'1 on Left.. only half done .. #2 I cut a skin artery and decided to stop..
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

few hours after proceedure.. eating drinking..

 

[bbsnooks]

Quote:

Hey Debra, good stuff. I'm learning from you. I had to cancel the workshop so you're one up on me. I read old books by going to google/books and inputting capon and caponizing and poultry. LOTS of old free books. You mentioned the string. How long should each piece be? What's w.g.a.d.?

w g a d = who gives a darn .. or the other word... ; )
re the string?? I've not quite figured that out yet .. i've got 12" or so.. but am still having breakage issues...
Teetering between having enough to work with when its surrounded ... and too much when first getting it around the testes.
its a small port hole to enter in.. and work thru.. I think my biggest problem is getting the membrane separated all around the testes before trying to put the string around it. The membrane will disallow the wrapping of the testes.

Have photo's of string on tools i'll post later to show Poco.. see if she can critique and find the source to my string breakage issues.

 

[bbsnooks]

#6 and #3 Birds..
Science project to observe..
Both these birds I was able to surround and disconnect one of the testes.. but had trouble on extraction.

#3 bird - broke apart on exit much of tissue left inside..

#6 bird - UGH!! < cant believe this > I lost it inside the cavity..
he had been on the table over an hour. so I just left it there.
and as i was taking photo's .. and had membrane issues <more later> I thought it best to get it over.
post op.. he was breathing very raspy.. and i though i would loose him.. for sure..
however an hour later breathing was better and he was drinking and eating..

I'm going to watch.. these and see if by disconnecting them.. is enough
one burst.. leaving tissue in side.. dont know if it will reattach some how
the Other is intact and totally separated from blood supply but...? we'll see He's #6

The membrane.. is challanging for me.. I use the hemostats to gently grab the membrane and pull away to cut with small cuticle scissors.
but i seem to miss parts and then the string does not surround.

< gently so not to poke the testicle and rupture it . Once ruptured .. its like it is under lots of pressure and bursts or did for me.. which most likely makes him a slip>
I imagine some one might be able to make that work .. but not me..
thats all for now.

 

[Ksane]

BBSnooks, the older bird I tried (and lost) that day was way way different than the 6 wk olds we were doing. My original goal was to get good at older birds but I've decided against that. It still haunts me to have lost the one I attempted that day. I was not prepared for how guilty and sad I would feel. I've used this example before but on the older ones it's like trying to get an egg yolk out of a bowl of jello with tools. I don't feel like I'll ever be good enough at the older ones to risk doing another one. In my mind I'll either kill them or they'll be slips so I'll have to stick with youngsters.
I admire your determination very very much

 

[bbsnooks]

BBSnooks, the older bird I tried (and lost) that day was way way different than the 6 wk olds we were doing. My original goal was to get good at older birds but I've decided against that. It still haunts me to have lost the one I attempted that day. I was not prepared for how guilty and sad I would feel. I've used this example before but on the older ones it's like trying to get an egg yolk out of a bowl of jello with tools. I don't feel like I'll ever be good enough at the older ones to risk doing another one. In my mind I'll either kill them or they'll be slips so I'll have to stick with youngsters.
I admire your determination very very much

hey K... i know what you mean by the guilty and sad.. I felt it too

Mine are all hand fed hand raised babies.. ( except the 6 the broody raised) and they were mixed donated eggs andi wasnt as attached to them) and i have 50 + and about half are roo's.. and they are not quite 5 mo old and are very "Randy" if you know what i mean.. so I have to do some thing !! and Fast!

Its hard for me too, even when I knew I'd loose some in the learning this.. because of my inexperience they may parish. but the only way to get that experience is to dig in and start some where. Actually it may have been easier to take - after the first one died.. because it was over! it took till today and loosing #2 and #1 bird to know I'd be ok with the losses.
< I decided to finish the job i started on them due to time restraints vs waiting a wk or 2>>
.. ( so total 3 Loss of 9 ) ot.. Of 9 total 6 are alive and ... well not quite kickin yet.
And I've cut my time in way more than 1/2 the last one was 36 minutes from cut -to- feed and water. I have gotten to see where my errors were, or what i thought they were, and made improvements. If you still wanted to try.. you could get some at auction /or other place and start with some thing your not so invested in. < you could do it.. i think>

I think the size of my flock and desire to breed pushes me to do it. Knowing lots of the hatch will be roosters... that will not be who i want to breed to .. so by learning this I get great table birds when the time comes.. and those who learn to be a brooder.. will live a longer protected life... and a higher pecking order at least with me..

Even tho I'm talk'n big.. dont think i didnt gasp and tear up.. when the first one died.. I believe It is difficult to take a life whether intentional or not, and more so when your filled with compassion as i think you are. You'll probably just work smart and get'em younger. I hope i do too..
---------------

so.. I just put 6 more in for fasting this afternoon -

Lessons learned today..
1) Forget about the Feathers on the floor.. they come up easy w/ vacuum.. Pluck them in a confined room At least.
Houdini 3 escaped during the plucking - while i was on back steps getting some sun and air.. He may never let me near him again.
2) Let them get their own water - I may have contributed to a death by trying to get water into one of them.
3) Learn how to keep track of instruments. I lost the scalpel and -- the hemostats many times today..
4) packing tape.. keeps stray Feathers from getting in the way... and I also used it on bare skinn as a temp suture.. < cuz i dont know how to suture > and after looking at the Do-Over's
and the way the feathers got stuck on the wound.. I'm trying this as a temp suture and I bet they can take the tape off at their convinence.
5) Tag and number <ifyoulike> before proceedure. I was taking so long at first all i wanted to go was get them up and drinking - and forgot the zip tie.
6) The pointed end of the thread holder tool.. works for airpuffs to puncture skin.
7) Cora's head lamps are better.


Ok.. guess what..
I think i tried to caponize a hen today.. ; )
cuz there were nonads