Ground Rods and connections..

[llombardo]

And how is the pen grounded? Maybe if I jnderstood that, the rest would make sense. Not one person I have spoke to has given me the same answer.

In my mind it makes sense to need a ground and hot within a distance that both will be touched. This is a first for hearing the pen is grounded.

 

[llombardo]

From your pics it looks like it's covered in HC, right? If it continues into the ground, then it's grounded or did you not run it out from the pen to make an apron around the bottom of the pen?
If you did, then It would be grounded...if not then all you have to do is ground the HC with a wire lead and ground rod. Easy peasy!

There are two seperate hardware cloths. I connected one as the apron and the rest is connected on its own.

When I attempted to make the gate hot I attached the hot wire to the HC and the charger went dead, so that didn't work.

The HC is not continous, I cut each piece individually, but I think it's all touching.

So your saying that I can put the ground rod in and attach it to hardware cloth and that it? The ground rod doesn't get attached to another rod, to the charger, just to the HC?

For now did I attach it right for now to ground the top? all I did was attach it to the ground wire. If I wanted to just ground that wire and not the enclosure cam I leave it as is or do I just attach that wire to a seperate rod, then attach the rod to nothing?

I'm not electrical savy, but I might be when this is all done.

 

[007Sean]

If the wire (HC) is buried in the ground, it would be grounded, even if only a few inches. Only the wire (HC) is grounded.
If it isn't buried, then put a ground rod in and run a jumper to the HC, it will then be grounded, no need to.run a ground wire along the top.

 

[007Sean]

There are two seperate hardware cloths. I connected one as the apron and the rest is connected on its own.

When I attempted to make the gate hot I attached the hot wire to the HC and the charger went dead, so that didn't work.

The HC is not continous, I cut each piece individually, but I think it's all touching.

So your saying that I can put the ground rod in and attach it to hardware cloth and that it? The ground rod doesn't get attached to another rod, to the charger, just to the HC?

For now did I attach it right for now to ground the top? all I did was attach it to the ground wire. If I wanted to just ground that wire and not the enclosure cam I leave it as is or do I just attach that wire to a seperate rod, then attach the rod to nothing?

I'm not electrical savy, but I might be when this is all done.

Yes, this way:
So your saying that I can put the ground rod in and attach it to hardware cloth and that it? The ground rod doesn't get attached to another rod, to the charger, just to the HC?

The reason being is the HC is grounded, so if an animal hits the live wire on the top, it will also be touching the grounded HC, thus completing the circuit, and receive a shock.

 

[RWise]

The ground wire you hooked up is shorted to the hot wire somewhere,, like said that ground is not needed.
Earth the ground from the charger (drive a ground rod into the soil where you place the charger) and the fence wire if not already earthed, and run only hot wires. One can poor salt water around the ground rod to improve the earth connection.

 

[123RedBeard]

It's hard to tell from the pictures ... but I'm guessing that the hardware cloth (HC) goes up the sides, but only the netting is over the top, is this correct?

If the HC is in contact with the earth/ground, and your ground rod is hooked to the chargers ground (negative) terminal, then HC is grounded ... however, it looks like the netting is not metal, and will not be grounded.

The extra ground wire you installed on the top would need to be hooked to the top of your ground rod that you pounded into the earth/ground.

One easy way to test if it really is working is to get a plastic chair, plastic cooler, milk crate ... something you can stand on, that will get you off the earth/ground ... then lay a few wet branches/sticks/weeds on the lower wires ... then, stand on the chair, and ... touch both wires! This will still shock you! BUT, it will be a reduced charge, as it is being shorted out by the sticks ... or, buy a fence tester ...

 

[happyfrenchman]

I am not sure the particulars of your situation, however I was once an aircraft electrician.... I know this.... you want to totally keep separate, your ground wires and circuit, from your hot wires circuit. Your vermin/predators are the only thing that should be making the connection between the two and that is where they get shocked. It sounds like your second ground is not isolated and is either short circuited to the power, which is why the power is shutting down, Disconnect the second ground and see if it goes away.... If it does, then isolate where it is shorting to the hot. There should be no problem with linking or tying all your grounds together. In fact I would think it would be advantageous. It sounds like you have somehow gotten something crossed. I would unconnect things until I could isolate the defective leg of your circuits.

As an electrician, I wish I could help you. I would take it apart and re-accomplish it, one circuit at a time to make sure you are not shorted out which I suspect you will find you are. Your hot wire should never have anything to do with your grounding wire or rod. The ground circuit is like a return circuit, with your hot circuit being the supply. When an animal touches the ground and the hot, the current flows through the animal and deters him. But otherwise, the two circuits are not connected. That is what makes it an electric fence.... you have to bridge the gap, to get shocked.

 

[llombardo]

I don't think the HW is grounded, only because like I said, I used two connections off the ground and I don't know if it's touching enough to ground it.

When I attached the ground wire that I ran across the top to the ground wire that is attached to rod, the fence stayed on. One rod, one connection to rid, but 2 wires

See picture--left wire is coming from the wire on top and is looped around the wire on right that runs to charger

 

[happyfrenchman]

You cannot "short" circuit a ground wire.... they are already short circuited to the ground... if a hot wire touches the ground, it will be a short circuit and will shut down your charger. The wires in that picture should only be ground wires. Grounding rod, to ground circuit..... When you say one goes to the charger, I am assuming you are hooking the one to the ground side of your charger... ? I would "daisy chain" or "connect" all my ground wires into one ground circuit. Keeping it apart from your hot circuit. You have to keep your hot wire isolated from anything that might be somehow "grounded", but you can link all your grounds together and it will be better for the overall system if you do it correctly. You can use multiple grounding rods and put them all onto your ground circuit.

For any electrical circuit, you need a positive (the hot wire side of your charger) and a negative... and you need a connection for current to flow. (The vermin makes the connection.) Your coop is likely pretty well grounded just because it is in contact with the earth, however the metal wiring could be incorporated into your ground circuit as well. Electricity as a concept takes a little while to understand (In my experience).

 

[Howard E]

It may help to think of this like a car battery. With a car battery, you have a + terminal (positive) and - terminal (negative). The wire leading from the negative battery terminal is often run straight to the car's frame, which being made of metal, conducts electricity. That way, any hot wire (red) that touches the car's frame is then connected back to the battery.

Actually, the correct way to jump start a car with battery cables is to hook the RED cable to the battery (and do that first), then hook the black cable to the car's frame somewhere away from the battery. That way, when it sparks, the spark is not anywhere near the battery. In older days, prior to sealed car batteries, the gas given off from a charged battery was hydrogen, which is flammable.....read "will blow up in your face"....literally..........which is why you wanted the spark to occur far away from the battery.

So with that car's system, anything electrical is powered from the + battery by a network of red wires. Red wires are HOT wires. They are insulated and the metal wires inside them can never touch anything that is grounded. If they do, current will flow and the that wire will short out. But connect that insulated red (hot) wire to a light bulb.......say the little light that comes on when you open the trunk. But it doesn't connect directly to the light. It goes through a switch first. When you open the trunk, the switch is released, allowing the current to flow.......to the light bulb, which is grounded to the frame. So the current flows down the red wire, through the switch, through the light bulb's filament back the frame and thus back to the battery. What you see is the light comes on. Close the trunk, the switch is cut off, current stops flowing and the light goes off.

Your fencer is doing the exact same thing. You have the red wires (this is the HOT one) and probably a green wire (this is the same as black, ground or negative). The HOT fence wire can never touch anything grounded or the current will flow (fence will short out and take away the potent shock potential). So the hot wire is what you place in the path of the animal. You want it fully insulated from any pathway back to ground, but fully exposed in such a way the animal (the switch) is going to touch it to create a pathway back to ground.

The grounding system (think of it as a system) should be as large as it can be. Indeed, the entire surface of the earth and anything that conducts electricity that can be attached to it is part of your grounded system. But to be grounded, it does need to be attached to this entire ground system. Your ground rod is attached......the black metal fence (I assume it is metal and at least the posts are buried in the ground) is grounded. Hardware cloth clipped to metal fence posts buried in the ground is grounded. Hardware cloth screwed to PVC posts is insulated from the ground and is NOT grounded, unless you connect a grounded wire to it. Then it is. If you hung the hardware cloth on PVC posts, I would absolutely ground it, so it becomes attached to the larger ground field. No need to run a bunch of extra ground wires all around unless there is nothing there that can be grounded if you don't.

For example, if you had a PVC or board privacy fence, and wanted to run a hot wire along the top......the PVC or board privacy fences are not conductor's of electricity. So an animal clinging to those is not grounded and can touch the hot wire with immunity (impunity?). So in that case you may actually want to run or install a ground wire alongside the hot wire to ensure the animal will be grounded when it touches the hot wire. It has to be done in such a way to touch both. Like finding a way to have the animal stand on or cling to the ground when it reaches out to grab the hot. Or run them close together so it tries to crawl through the two of them, touching both at the same time.

Hope this helps!