Growing fodder for chickens

[Roxannemc]

I wanted to add these green living cost savers I have tons of plastic water contains as we have sulfur tasting well water.Like finding ways to suse them

..I used the cartons to soak the seeds
.First one i cut leave the handle put holes in the bottom. Second cut in half ...first fits in second. Works awesomely!.

Flats-And Lowes gave me their old flats free,. I wasnt really happy at first because they have pot holding holes in them but free is good so figured make them work.
Found fodder is hard to tear apart if you need just part of a flat ... and disturbs the roots if you leave some -use some, so found the separate holes work Great!.
Pieces already seperated from the others Just pick it up and go
. Dont get as much per flat but no tugging or cutting to get it apart
The tv dinner containers are great too because they are small so fit in spots that a big flat doesnt.




.Ready to use...

 

[greenmimama]

I wanted to add these green living cost savers I have tons of plastic water contains as we have sulfur tasting well water.Like finding ways to suse them

..I used the cartons to soak the seeds
.First one i cut leave the handle put holes in the bottom. Second cut in half ...first fits in second. Works awesomely!.

Flats-And Lowes gave me their old flats free,. I wasnt really happy at first because they have pot holding holes in them but free is good so figured make them work.
Found fodder is hard to tear apart if you need just part of a flat ... and disturbs the roots if you leave some -use some, so found the separate holes work Great!.
Pieces already seperated from the others Just pick it up and go
. Dont get as much per flat but no tugging or cutting to get it apart
The tv dinner containers are great too because they are small so fit in spots that a big flat doesnt.




.Ready to use...

Thanks, I do have a lot of gal. containers, because my boys drink a lot of milk, I will try that idea.

 

[Chaneys Ranch]

I wanted to add these green living cost savers I have tons of plastic water contains as we have sulfur tasting well water.Like finding ways to suse them

..I used the cartons to soak the seeds
.First one i cut leave the handle put holes in the bottom. Second cut in half ...first fits in second. Works awesomely!.

Flats-And Lowes gave me their old flats free,. I wasnt really happy at first because they have pot holding holes in them but free is good so figured make them work.
Found fodder is hard to tear apart if you need just part of a flat ... and disturbs the roots if you leave some -use some, so found the separate holes work Great!.
Pieces already seperated from the others Just pick it up and go
. Dont get as much per flat but no tugging or cutting to get it apart
The tv dinner containers are great too because they are small so fit in spots that a big flat doesnt.




.Ready to use...

Great idea and best of all, FREE containers! Thanks for sharing.

 

[Spangled]

Quote:
I agree with you that I think there could be a fair amount of mold involved without us noticing it. You know how they say that in a moldy piece of bread that you need to remove an inch around the visible mold because the mold is actually there and we can't see it. But I don't know; that's just what I hear ... I haven't looked into it to figure out the truth. And there is a wheatgrass growers out there telling folks that it's okay to eat moldy wheatgrass if you cut above the mold and only eat the grass above the mold line. I just don't feel comfort feeding my chickens or myself mold ... well, unless it's blue cheese.

And since I can prevent the mold on the wheat shoots/sprouts and/or don't mind tossing any moldy sprouts, that's what I do.

One way I prevent mold is to sprout to 3-4 inches only whole grains that are described as "wheat for bread making." It's been cleaned and all the chaff, broken pieces, wild oats, hulls have been removed.

When I tried sprouting barley with the hulls on, I could only get them to barely sprout before they started to sour or grow mold. That's when I switched to cleaned wheat. I struggled with sunflower seeds also. Part of it was that I didn't like the fact that different stuff had different sprout times, so I just simplified and went with wheat.

However, the whole grain wheat would mold, too, but at a later point in the growth at around 2-4 inches high. I also couldn't figure out how I was supposed to know if it was a fungus or a mold? What if it was a fungus like ergot? Does ergot grow in water?

So then, I researched it a bit and found that for some it helps to wash or soak with some sort of vegetable oil extract. Say neem oil or oregano oil. I saw lavender oil mentioned. Tea tree oil. If you look up "fungicide" and "wheatgrass" or "mold" and "sprouting," etc., then you can assess the risks and experiment yourself if you feel lucky. My concern with using a vegetable oil/extract is that if it's truly a killer of bacteria, which some claim some extracts to be, then if my chickens eat it, it will kill the good bacteria in their digestive tract. My chickens do get probiotics, so hopefully they're digestive tract is fine. You know what? They do live through the winter ... even my back up roosters that I keep just in case of trouble. In actuality, I probably just worry too much.

Beyond what I read about the vegetable/plant extract oils, I also read a little vinegar will help keep the mold at bay. Again, I've not tried this, so I don't know about how well it works. It will change the pH a little, so if that matters to you, then you'll have to make sure it's okay in that respect. Additionally I saw food grade hydrogen peroxide mentioned.

Bleaching the soaking container and sprouting containers between batches or at least giving them a good scrub is something else to try if you aren't already.

So, when I think about you using rye right out of the combine, I am wondering how clean it is. If it's got a fair bit of broken pieces or hulls, then a few vigorous rinsings will be in order. Do you think you can get the hulls/chaff to float so that you can skim them off? Maybe soak for 2 hours and then rinse and then begin another soak? Maybe the whole grains will sink and some of the chaff/hulls will float so you can skim them off? I have sprouted some grain that has floaters (I can't remember which grain), and I try to get those floaters to drain off the top when I do my rinses. But if you have broken pieces of rye, they can start to rot before you can get your grass to grow very tall. I think you may just have to do a lot of experimenting to figure out what you can get away with. Maybe you can do extra vinegar? rinsings after a few days of growth ... something like that?

Just for the record, in case it matters for those who can't remember which method I've been using, I have been doing this for a number of years and do a real low tech and low brow method of growing wheatgrass/sprouting wheat. I use three plastic spinach containers from costco and stack them on the kitchen table under a window. They will stack open (for air flow) if you set the lids cockeyed. It's a bit of a booby trap, I'll admit. Initially, I rinse and then soak about 8-12 hours. Then I wash with a few drops of whatever veggie extract I have on hand in the water, swirling it around quite a bit, then drain and rinse again and set aside to grow. I rinse twice a day; I just drain the water off the top since I don't poke holes in the bottom of the containers (embarrassingly low tech). I feed one container probably every other day to the chickens once the green sprouts are 3-4 inches. I'm not super regimented about it. I just feel that the chickens do a whole lot better if they are getting something fresh and green in the winter months when the green grass they love is under the snow. They get dry ground org. alfalfa and dry org. kelp flakes also which are green in their feeder of balanced feed year 'round. They get table scraps of lettuce ends and a few other greens, like parsley stems, cabbage, spinach, purslane, etc., too, but it's all sporadic. And they also have a feeder with whole grains in it. I tear the wheat grass brick apart and toss it onto old enamel pans I have out there for kitchen scraps. It keeps it out of the shavings/leaves/hay or off the snow for a few minutes before they have strewn it about.

 

[Spangled]

Quote:

The ingredients of Calf Manna that I found on the web (could be a little different, but is likely similar):
"Soybean meal, corn, hominy feed, feeding oatmeal, dried whey, dehydrated alfalfa meal, linseed meal, brewer’s dried yeast, vegetable oil, fenugreek seed, anise oil, calcium carbonate, monocalcium phosphate, dicalcium phosphate, salt, sulfur, iron oxide, ferrous carbonate, ferrous sulfate, copper oxide, copper sulfate, manganous oxide, zinc oxide, sodium selenite, cobalt carbonate, calcium iodate, Vitamin A supplement, Vitamin D3 supplement, Vitamin E supplement, choline chloride, thiamine mononitrate, niacin supplement, riboflavin supplement, calcium pantothenate, pyridoxine hydrochloride, Vitamin B12 supplement, folic acid, biotin."

A couple of questions ...

What do you think happens to fat-soluable vitamins listed above (A, D, E) when cooked at 350F? Aren't they sensitive to heat? The bottom of the label states: "Feed is perishable. Store this product in a cool, dry area away from insects and rodents."

On the Fertrell Nutribalancer ... does the cooking process inactivate the probiotics? Nutribalancer also included fat-soluable vitamins A, D, E, K, which are sensitive to heat. Why are you cooking the Nutribalancer? Why a teaspoon? Does that compute to 1 bag of Nutribalancer per 1 ton of feed or are you including it in your feeding program at another rate that isn't listed on the bag's instructions?

You say 3-4 loaves for X chickens and X turkeys. How many turkeys usually? How many chickens usually? Are they all dual purpose chickens? (just checking on size)

How many people feed chickens this way? Is there a company or group promoting or recommending this? You know like a feed company or feed mill or hatchery? It sure is interesting. Innovative. Creative. Thinking outside the box.

I balk at the energy I'd have to use to cook it. It wouldn't bother me so much if I could find another method of cooking. Looking at the recipe, though, I bet it could be all mixed and left to soften overnight and then be fed in the morning. Well, except maybe some wouldn't feed raw egg and shells to their chickens. But that helps get the complete protein (methionine), so some sort of animal protein is a good idea in the recipe. Soaking in room temp water overnight ... how would that affect the viability of the vitamins and probiotics (mentioned above)? I'd leave out that kind of yeast, too. Old timers used to feed wet mashes are part of their feeding programs. They did sprouts, too. The guy I read about that did oat sprouts did his in the ground. His show chickens loved them.

 

[kreagerm]

So does anybody have information as to how long each different type of seed takes to sprout?

Making a mix would be great and they'd all be the same size if we knew when to start each one so they all finish around the same time.

Here is a great link with all the info you need. This was posted earlier on in this thread.
http://www.natureswonderland.com.au/articles/sprouting-seeds/

 

[LeslieDJoyce]

I agree with you that I think there could be a fair amount of mold involved without us noticing it. leaching the soaking container and sprouting containers between batches or at least giving them a good scrub is something else to try if you aren't already.

So, when I think about you using rye right out of the combine, I am wondering how clean it is. If it's got a fair bit of broken pieces or hulls, then a few vigorous rinsings will be in order. Do you think you can get the hulls/chaff to float so that you can skim them off? Maybe soak for 2 hours and then rinse and then begin another soak? Maybe the whole grains will sink and some of the chaff/hulls will float so you can skim them off? I have sprouted some grain that has floaters (I can't remember which grain), and I try to get those floaters to drain off the top when I do my rinses. But if you have broken pieces of rye, they can start to rot before you can get your grass to grow very tall. I think you may just have to do a lot of experimenting to figure out what you can get away with. Maybe you can do extra vinegar? rinsings after a few days of growth ... something like that?

As far as experiments go, I pretty well lost control of this one when on day 2 my boyfriend said it looked like fun and stepped in. By stepping in I mean he literally pushed me out of the way, told me the wanted to "just try it and see what happens." Blah, blah, blah ... pretty much the opposite of what I had researched was done, and with a *considerable* amount of rye to boot. Only token pre-washing, overcrowded soaking, no rinsing while soaking because the bowls were too full, overfilled flats, freshly-soaked rye dumped over already-sprouting flats, too many flats started on the same day, flats stacked awkwardly so poor rinsing access and poor air circulation, etc.

At first I was annoyed (I'd done a LOT of research

), but for my own sanity I decided to treat the whole thing like entertainment.

AND YET, there were two flats with wonderfully sprouted rye with very few signs of mold -- even when I pulled the root masses completely apart everything inside was fresh and firm and crisp and distinct. Those two flats went to our flock yesterday and today. The other flats sprouted into a big fat moldy mess, which was a disappointment to my boyfriend but no surprise to me.

I started over yesterday with a sensible portion of rye. It didn't take too long to get beautifully clear water while rinsing. I did do a lot of skimming of floaty bits, as predicted in the quote above. I also used a tiny amount of bleach.

I think I'll keep rinsing, draining and turning this batch in a stainless-steel bowl until it is sprouting well, so maybe an extra day or so. Only then will I spread a thin layer of it into a flat. I will also clean and sanitize the bathtub where I will keep the flats while they're sprouting. Each day I will follow this procedure. I'll report back when I have results to share, good or bad.

I am so grateful for the generous advice of people on this forum and I am gobsmacked that not everyone is!

Thanks again, everyone!

 

[pigeonguy]

Quote: Quote pigeonguy

According to this you only feed 1 square inch per chicken. so if I have a feeder 2 inches wide by 30 inches long and put the sprouts a half inch deep that would be 30 square inches of feed so that would feed 30 chickens. Just saying for people that are confused on how much to feed.


This is what is posted on the sprouting thread I wonder if it holds true for fodder.

 

[pawtraitart]

The ingredients of Calf Manna that I found on the web (could be a little different, but is likely similar):
"Soybean meal, corn, hominy feed, feeding oatmeal, dried whey, dehydrated alfalfa meal, linseed meal, brewer’s dried yeast, vegetable oil, fenugreek seed, anise oil, calcium carbonate, monocalcium phosphate, dicalcium phosphate, salt, sulfur, iron oxide, ferrous carbonate, ferrous sulfate, copper oxide, copper sulfate, manganous oxide, zinc oxide, sodium selenite, cobalt carbonate, calcium iodate, Vitamin A supplement, Vitamin D3 supplement, Vitamin E supplement, choline chloride, thiamine mononitrate, niacin supplement, riboflavin supplement, calcium pantothenate, pyridoxine hydrochloride, Vitamin B12 supplement, folic acid, biotin."

A couple of questions ...

What do you think happens to fat-soluable vitamins listed above (A, D, E) when cooked at 350F? Aren't they sensitive to heat? The bottom of the label states: "Feed is perishable. Store this product in a cool, dry area away from insects and rodents."

On the Fertrell Nutribalancer ... does the cooking process inactivate the probiotics? Nutribalancer also included fat-soluable vitamins A, D, E, K, which are sensitive to heat. Why are you cooking the Nutribalancer? Why a teaspoon? Does that compute to 1 bag of Nutribalancer per 1 ton of feed or are you including it in your feeding program at another rate that isn't listed on the bag's instructions?

You say 3-4 loaves for X chickens and X turkeys. How many turkeys usually? How many chickens usually? Are they all dual purpose chickens? (just checking on size)

How many people feed chickens this way? Is there a company or group promoting or recommending this? You know like a feed company or feed mill or hatchery? It sure is interesting. Innovative. Creative. Thinking outside the box.

I balk at the energy I'd have to use to cook it. It wouldn't bother me so much if I could find another method of cooking. Looking at the recipe, though, I bet it could be all mixed and left to soften overnight and then be fed in the morning. Well, except maybe some wouldn't feed raw egg and shells to their chickens. But that helps get the complete protein (methionine), so some sort of animal protein is a good idea in the recipe. Soaking in room temp water overnight ... how would that affect the viability of the vitamins and probiotics (mentioned above)? I'd leave out that kind of yeast, too. Old timers used to feed wet mashes are part of their feeding programs. They did sprouts, too. The guy I read about that did oat sprouts did his in the ground. His show chickens loved them.

Okay, please forgive me if I miss something....


I haven't found any problems with cooking either product. Calf manna could probably be exchanged for something else. I like the ingredients for regaining condition after the previous breeding season and molt. I don't use the calf manna when I'm hatching because it has GMO's which I've found to affect hatch rate, though. My measurements are based upon what has worked the best for me. I'm sure it could be tweaked, but I just haven't bothered changing it once I felt my poultry were thriving on the current program. I don't think most people feed their chickens this way and I'm probably insane for doing it. LOL. It's more work than just opening up a bag. However, since I've gone this route I've seen the results in my birds and that's good enough for me.

Currently, I'm wintering 18 turkeys. They get a share of the bread, plain poultry wheat, veggies, fodder, and 4th crop alfalfa hay....for the chickens I'd have to go count them...30+ but I actually really don't want to know. Too many I'm sure....gotta love chicken math. I have dual purpose and bantams. I also have muscovy ducks and quail. The ducks get poultry wheat, are left out to forage, and they help themselves to the pigs pumpkins and alfalfa hay. For the quail, I do feed them commercial feed. I haven't gotten around to figuring out a complete ration for them that I can make myself. Raw dough? I'm not sure, so I'm not going to say. If you don't want to cook, then you can go the "mash" route by using courser ground wheat instead of flour. Egg cooks quickly so you could chop up some cooked egg and toss it in the mix. I hope I got everything.

 

[pawtraitart]

Quote pigeonguy

According to this you only feed 1 square inch per chicken. so if I have a feeder 2 inches wide by 30 inches long and put the sprouts a half inch deep that would be 30 square inches of feed so that would feed 30 chickens. Just saying for people that are confused on how much to feed.


This is what is posted on the sprouting thread I wonder if it holds true for fodder.

Thanks, pigeonguy!