Growing fodder for chickens

[tillyita]

I don't know about companies over there in the USA but over here their main concern is to make money! They don't put anything in the feed/pellets that will directly harm your animals but they can and will do pretty much anything to get you to buy the product. To do this they make the pellets "addictive" for the animals. Usually by adding salt. Pretty much every animal on the planet craves salt, that doesn't mean that they need as much of it as they can possibly get. Basically what this means is that no matter what else they have eaten during the day they are still likely to eat at least some pellets if they are offered.

When push comes to shove chickens are omnivores. They do need some variety in their diet, just like we do. We can have rice, corn, potatoes or even bread as a base to our diet, but without some variety we would get bored of it pretty quickly. There are a few things that we can eat that will provide the vast majority of what we need without needing to eat anything else (oats being one) but if offered something like chocolate or chips, I'm like most people, I would eat them preferentially over the "good stuff".

My chickens get fodder, they also get table scraps and free range most of the time. They only get additional grain if I have nothing else and they haven't been out ranging the paddocks. They are all healthy and except for when they go broody or into moult I get eggs.

 

[cockoftherock]

Here is the real science, from a real scientist, who is involved in doing real science. Please post real science from a real a scientist supporting your stated position.
As per this real scientist at Ohio State U the portion of a chickens' gut that is responsible for the digestion of fiber is only a scant 4 inches long (or about as long as your forefinger) and it is largely nonfunctioning because it has atrophied over millenniums much like your appendix or mine has atrophied from disuse. There is a truism in animal husbandry that states that short digestive tracks are responsible for more food nutrients being lost or pass unabsorbed in the manure.
The part of the below quote in bold italics was highlighted by myself simply to make it easier and clearer for the reader or readers to read and understand. I highly recommend that anyone seriously interested in the welfare of their chickens to click on and view and read this link or similar links. There is a real chickens' digestive system displayed here.

from John Anderson, Dept. of Animal Sciences, The Ohio State University. Used with permission.
http://www.geauga4h.org/poultry/chicken_digestion.htm
"In most livestock, teeth function to grind feed into smaller particles. Birds must pass feed usually whole into the esophagus because they do not have teeth. Therefore, particles of poultry feed should be small enough to pass through the esophagus. Feed passes from the mouth and through the precrop esophagus to the crop. If the proventriculus and gizzard are full, feed is stored in the crop. Feed is also moistened in the crop.
Feed passes from the crop through the postcrop esophagus to the proventriculus. The proventriculus (a glandular type of stomach) secretes acid and enzymes. The acid and enzymes are mixed with the feed to start the digestive process. The feed then passes to the gizzard (a mechanical type of stomach). The gizzard has very strong muscular walls that grind the feed. Depending on the type of feed ingested, poultry may also swallow small rocks. These rocks aid in the grinding of harder feed particles in the gizzard.
Feed passes from the gizzard into the small intestine, where additional enzymes are added and digestion occurs. The small intestine also serves to absorb digestion products (proteins, carbohydrates, and fats). You should notice in the photo above that the first part of the small intestine loops around the pancreas (called the duodenal loop). The pancreas secretes digestive enzymes into the small intestine. The small intestine of a mature chicken is more than 4.5 feet in length, which is necessary to provide the surface area required to absorb digested feed.
Two blind pouches called the ceca (singular: cecum) are attached at the junction between the small intestine and large intestine. Microorganisms capable of breaking down fibrous material live in the ceca. However, this is not a significant part of the digestion system in modern birds. Scientists believe that the ceca may have played an important role in the digestion system of ancestors of modern birds.
The large intestine of a mature ch

Here is the real science, from a real scientist, who is involved in doing real science. Please post real science from a real a scientist supporting your stated position.
As per this real scientist at Ohio State U the portion of a chickens' gut that is responsible for the digestion of fiber is only a scant 4 inches long (or about as long as your forefinger) and it is largely nonfunctioning because it has atrophied over millenniums much like your appendix or mine has atrophied from disuse. There is a truism in animal husbandry that states that short digestive tracks are responsible for more food nutrients being lost or pass unabsorbed in the manure.
The part of the below quote in bold italics was highlighted by myself simply to make it easier and clearer for the reader or readers to read and understand. I highly recommend that anyone seriously interested in the welfare of their chickens to click on and view and read this link or similar links. There is a real chickens' digestive system displayed here.

from John Anderson, Dept. of Animal Sciences, The Ohio State University. Used with permission.
http://www.geauga4h.org/poultry/chicken_digestion.htm
"In most livestock, teeth function to grind feed into smaller particles. Birds must pass feed usually whole into the esophagus because they do not have teeth. Therefore, particles of poultry feed should be small enough to pass through the esophagus. Feed passes from the mouth and through the precrop esophagus to the crop. If the proventriculus and gizzard are full, feed is stored in the crop. Feed is also moistened in the crop.
Feed passes from the crop through the postcrop esophagus to the proventriculus. The proventriculus (a glandular type of stomach) secretes acid and enzymes. The acid and enzymes are mixed with the feed to start the digestive process. The feed then passes to the gizzard (a mechanical type of stomach). The gizzard has very strong muscular walls that grind the feed. Depending on the type of feed ingested, poultry may also swallow small rocks. These rocks aid in the grinding of harder feed particles in the gizzard.
Feed passes from the gizzard into the small intestine, where additional enzymes are added and digestion occurs. The small intestine also serves to absorb digestion products (proteins, carbohydrates, and fats). You should notice in the photo above that the first part of the small intestine loops around the pancreas (called the duodenal loop). The pancreas secretes digestive enzymes into the small intestine. The small intestine of a mature chicken is more than 4.5 feet in length, which is necessary to provide the surface area required to absorb digested feed.
Two blind pouches called the ceca (singular: cecum) are attached at the junction between the small intestine and large intestine. Microorganisms capable of breaking down fibrous material live in the ceca. However, this is not a significant part of the digestion system in modern birds. Scientists believe that the ceca may have played an important role in the digestion system of ancestors of modern birds.
The large intestine of a mature chicken is relatively short, about 4 inches in length. The large intestine stores undigested waste material and absorbs water from the material. The large intestine connects to the cloaca, which is where the digestive, urinary, and reproductive systems meet. Uric acid is mixed with feces and passes out of the vent. The vent serves also as the point where eggs pass out of the bird body."

Here is the real science, from a real scientist, who is involved in doing real science. Please post real science from a real a scientist supporting your stated position.
As per this real scientist at Ohio State U the portion of a chickens' gut that is responsible for the digestion of fiber is only a scant 4 inches long (or about as long as your forefinger) and it is largely nonfunctioning because it has atrophied over millenniums much like your appendix or mine has atrophied from disuse. There is a truism in animal husbandry that states that short digestive tracks are responsible for more food nutrients being lost or pass unabsorbed in the manure.
The part of the below quote in bold italics was highlighted by myself simply to make it easier and clearer for the reader or readers to read and understand. I highly recommend that anyone seriously interested in the welfare of their chickens to click on and view and read this link or similar links. There is a real chickens' digestive system displayed here.

from John Anderson, Dept. of Animal Sciences, The Ohio State University. Used with permission.
http://www.geauga4h.org/poultry/chicken_digestion.htm
"In most livestock, teeth function to grind feed into smaller particles. Birds must pass feed usually whole into the esophagus because they do not have teeth. Therefore, particles of poultry feed should be small enough to pass through the esophagus. Feed passes from the mouth and through the precrop esophagus to the crop. If the proventriculus and gizzard are full, feed is stored in the crop. Feed is also moistened in the crop.
Feed passes from the crop through the postcrop esophagus to the proventriculus. The proventriculus (a glandular type of stomach) secretes acid and enzymes. The acid and enzymes are mixed with the feed to start the digestive process. The feed then passes to the gizzard (a mechanical type of stomach). The gizzard has very strong muscular walls that grind the feed. Depending on the type of feed ingested, poultry may also swallow small rocks. These rocks aid in the grinding of harder feed particles in the gizzard.
Feed passes from the gizzard into the small intestine, where additional enzymes are added and digestion occurs. The small intestine also serves to absorb digestion products (proteins, carbohydrates, and fats). You should notice in the photo above that the first part of the small intestine loops around the pancreas (called the duodenal loop). The pancreas secretes digestive enzymes into the small intestine. The small intestine of a mature chicken is more than 4.5 feet in length, which is necessary to provide the surface area required to absorb digested feed.
Two blind pouches called the ceca (singular: cecum) are attached at the junction between the small intestine and large intestine. Microorganisms capable of breaking down fibrous material live in the ceca. However, this is not a significant part of the digestion system in modern birds. Scientists believe that the ceca may have played an important role in the digestion system of ancestors of modern birds.
The large intestine of a mature chicken is relatively short, about 4 inches in length. The large intestine stores undigested waste material and absorbs water from the material. The large intestine connects to the cloaca, which is where the digestive, urinary, and reproductive systems meet. Uric acid is mixed with feces and passes out of the vent. The vent serves also as the point where eggs pass out of the bird body."

Im curious George. have you ever gutted a chicken? The other 3 1/2 ft. of small intestine is where the majority of digestion occurs. If ur implying that the cecae is useless ur mistakened bacteria further breaks down nutrience. The large intestine is the Last ditch effort and doesnt have to be big because the gizzard S. intestine and cecae are pretty efficient. I didnt want people getting confused behind your over generalizations A highschool biology. book would be a goo

Here is the real science, from a real scientist, who is involved in doing real science. Please post real science from a real a scientist supporting your stated position.
As per this real scientist at Ohio State U the portion of a chickens' gut that is responsible for the digestion of fiber is only a scant 4 inches long (or about as long as your forefinger) and it is largely nonfunctioning because it has atrophied over millenniums much like your appendix or mine has atrophied from disuse. There is a truism in animal husbandry that states that short digestive tracks are responsible for more food nutrients being lost or pass unabsorbed in the manure.
The part of the below quote in bold italics was highlighted by myself simply to make it easier and clearer for the reader or readers to read and understand. I highly recommend that anyone seriously interested in the welfare of their chickens to click on and view and read this link or similar links. There is a real chickens' digestive system displayed here.

from John Anderson, Dept. of Animal Sciences, The Ohio State University. Used with permission.
http://www.geauga4h.org/poultry/chicken_digestion.htm
"In most livestock, teeth function to grind feed into smaller particles. Birds must pass feed usually whole into the esophagus because they do not have teeth. Therefore, particles of poultry feed should be small enough to pass through the esophagus. Feed passes from the mouth and through the precrop esophagus to the crop. If the proventriculus and gizzard are full, feed is stored in the crop. Feed is also moistened in the crop.
Feed passes from the crop through the postcrop esophagus to the proventriculus. The proventriculus (a glandular type of stomach) secretes acid and enzymes. The acid and enzymes are mixed with the feed to start the digestive process. The feed then passes to the gizzard (a mechanical type of stomach). The gizzard has very strong muscular walls that grind the feed. Depending on the type of feed ingested, poultry may also swallow small rocks. These rocks aid in the grinding of harder feed particles in the gizzard.
Feed passes from the gizzard into the small intestine, where additional enzymes are added and digestion occurs. The small intestine also serves to absorb digestion products (proteins, carbohydrates, and fats). You should notice in the photo above that the first part of the small intestine loops around the pancreas (called the duodenal loop). The pancreas secretes digestive enzymes into the small intestine. The small intestine of a mature chicken is more than 4.5 feet in length, which is necessary to provide the surface area required to absorb digested feed.
Two blind pouches called the ceca (singular: cecum) are attached at the junction between the small intestine and large intestine. Microorganisms capable of breaking down fibrous material live in the ceca. However, this is not a significant part of the digestion system in modern birds. Scientists believe that the ceca may have played an important role in the digestion system of ancestors of modern birds.
The large intestine of a mature chicken is relatively short, about 4 inches in length. The large intestine stores undigested waste material and absorbs water from the material. The large intestine connects to the cloaca, which is where the digestive, urinary, and reproductive systems meet. Uric acid is mixed with feces and passes out of the vent. The vent serves also as the point where eggs pass out of the bird body."

read first so you can understand the scientists George Happy reading

 

[cockoftherock]

Hear hear

I don't know about companies over there in the USA but over here their main concern is to make money! They don't put anything in the feed/pellets that will directly harm your animals but they can and will do pretty much anything to get you to buy the product. To do this they make the pellets "addictive" for the animals. Usually by adding salt. Pretty much every animal on the planet craves salt, that doesn't mean that they need as much of it as they can possibly get. Basically what this means is that no matter what else they have eaten during the day they are still likely to eat at least some pellets if they are offered.

When push comes to shove chickens are omnivores. They do need some variety in their diet, just like we do. We can have rice, corn, potatoes or even bread as a base to our diet, but without some variety we would get bored of it pretty quickly. There are a few things that we can eat that will provide the vast majority of what we need without needing to eat anything else (oats being one) but if offered something like chocolate or chips, I'm like most people, I would eat them preferentially over the "good stuff".

My chickens get fodder, they also get table scraps and free range most of the time. They only get additional grain if I have nothing else and they haven't been out ranging the paddocks. They are all healthy and except for when they go broody or into moult I get eggs.

 

[michaelf]

Here is a theory of mine. I like to hunt and plant food plots .I use most of the time in the fall ,oats and some Australian winter peas. Turkey's come and peck through the plots regularly. I also get pictures of them at our feeders.(which has corn in them) . What I am getting at is the variety of forage they eat. If grasses were not good for them,they would not be eating them. (Being the food plots are the only green grasses in the woods during winter) I have seen them come through pecking the whole time. So again another poultry animal that has grasses in there diet. So more proof there is something to it. During the spring I plant wheat because it grows quick. Same senario ! They come in and peck through the plots. Yep there is more. I see this until the grasses get taller. When it gets about 8 inches tall I rarely see them back in there until it seeds out.They really like it when it is sprouting and about 3-5 inches tall, like our fodder. I believe that the newly growing sprouts are tender and palatable( if a word for poultry) easily digestable to them. And naturally they know what's best for them. Less chance of an impacted crop from tender growth!

 

[cockoftherock]

Ok. its not the best not shouldnt before someone misunderstands here If I may you shouldnt feed your chicken oyster shell but calcium carbonate with grit of course Why you ask oyster shell is only 5 -10 percent digestable where as cal
carb. is 100 % absorbed. Its very important you dont give ur birds too much tho why and whay percent george? This is a test.

Based on the history of my family, I use deduction (since my Dad isn't here, any longer, to tell me) to figure it out.  I am sure when they raised chickens when he was a boy (in the 1920-40s) that they had plenty of kitchen refuse for their chickens to supplement grains and--if they had them--processed feed.  When you say that feed pellets (all commercial food?) are a relatively new convenience, how "new" do you mean?  I know we used them over fifty years ago when I was just a tot---a crumbly form, anyway.  There are so many different opinions in this thread and everyone seems to think they are "right".  I don't think it matters unless you cannot afford commercial food or are extremely frugal or don't trust commercial food, etc..... For me, it is more for convenience and I don't have to worry if they are getting enough nutrients.  They say that if you put out oyster shell, chickens will eat it if they crave it.  Humans will crave certain foods when their bodies need it.  And they're stupid enough to eat things they don't need, just like a lot of animals, humans included. So if I see my girls out foraging all day long until it is time to roost, but I see them go eat some pellets (even during the summer when all food-types are plentiful), I am thinking there is something in it that they crave.  Or maybe they just like it in the same way I like ice cream.  I certainly don't "need" it or "crave" it for nutrition.  However, If it is sitting in my freezer and I know it's there----I'm bound to go get some; hopefully, not as often as my hens go for the pellets.

 

[MaPa26]

Ok. its not the best not shouldnt before someone misunderstands here If I may you shouldnt feed your chicken oyster shell but calcium carbonate with grit of course Why you ask oyster shell is only 5 -10 percent digestable where as cal
carb. is 100 % absorbed. Its very important you dont give ur birds too much tho why and whay percent george? This is a test.
Quote: In this particular case, I was using "oyster shell" as an example. My pellets have calcium. And I give them plain Greek yogurt as a treat on their feed, once a day, every other day, or so. If I were feeding fodder and wanted calcium, I would add chia seed.

 

[MaPa26]

I don't know about companies over there in the USA but over here their main concern is to make money! They don't put anything in the feed/pellets that will directly harm your animals but they can and will do pretty much anything to get you to buy the product. To do this they make the pellets "addictive" for the animals. Usually by adding salt. Pretty much every animal on the planet craves salt, that doesn't mean that they need as much of it as they can possibly get. Basically what this means is that no matter what else they have eaten during the day they are still likely to eat at least some pellets if they are offered.

When push comes to shove chickens are omnivores. They do need some variety in their diet, just like we do. We can have rice, corn, potatoes or even bread as a base to our diet, but without some variety we would get bored of it pretty quickly. There are a few things that we can eat that will provide the vast majority of what we need without needing to eat anything else (oats being one) but if offered something like chocolate or chips, I'm like most people, I would eat them preferentially over the "good stuff".

My chickens get fodder, they also get table scraps and free range most of the time. They only get additional grain if I have nothing else and they haven't been out ranging the paddocks. They are all healthy and except for when they go broody or into moult I get eggs.

LOL! I never thought of that (feed/pellets having something added that the chickens get addicted to). It would not surprise me, in the least! During the really cold spell, I often just put some dry pellets out in the pen for them instead of wet food because it was freezing immediately. Now that it is warmer, wet food is fed twice a day and I am back to fermenting it. They REALLY go nuts over it when it is fermented! They usually eat every bite (two cups of it for six chickens). When it is not fermented, they get bored with it rather quickly and go back to foraging. When I put out scratch or cracked corn, with some BOSS (threw in their pen to encourage them to scratch in the straw, because we had almost a foot of snow and they refused to go out in it---not much point in it when it is that deep, anyway). They really went after the sunflower seeds, picking them out. So maybe sunflower seeds are to chickens like chocolate chips are to us, if they were mixed in with soybean or wheatberry snacks, lol! I know ONE thing my girls are addicted to: dried meal worms! It's like crack to them!

 

[Fancychooklady]

We have all acquired a taste for salt. In the states they have started the ' salt revolution '. It is said to be doing far more damage than sugar. Yet it is added to everything we eat. The calcium level should be between 2.5 - 4% . Too much calcium can be as detrimental as too little ! IMHO the calcium levels in chia are a little too high for chooks.

 

[cockoftherock]

It was a trick question a rooster needs 1% or less and four is a lttle high chap it really depends on your breed if the hen roosters dont lay eggs produces more than 250 eggs your giving your chickens a disease by kidney failure otherwise I wondeted y your chickens on

 

[cockoftherock]

Fermentation your creating drunk chickenoholics baha ha thats a jk ppl ha. Dont say soy or gmo here your likely to rile some feathers sir ha

LOL!  I never thought of that (feed/pellets having something added that the chickens get addicted to).   It would not surprise me, in the least!   During the really cold spell, I often just put some dry pellets out in the pen for them instead of wet food because it was freezing immediately.  Now that it is warmer, wet food is fed twice a day and I am back to fermenting it.  They REALLY go nuts over it when it is fermented!  They usually eat every bite (two cups of it for six chickens).  When it is not fermented, they get bored with it rather quickly and go back to foraging.  When I put out scratch or cracked corn, with some BOSS (threw in their pen to encourage them to scratch in the straw, because we had almost a foot of snow and they refused to go out in it---not much point in it when it is that deep, anyway).  They really went after the sunflower seeds, picking them out.  So maybe sunflower seeds are to chickens like chocolate chips are to us, if they were mixed in with soybean or wheatberry snacks, lol!  I know ONE thing my girls are addicted to:  dried meal worms!  It's like crack to them!