Gun Owners and Non-Gun Owners should come to a Meeting of the Minds

[Buster52]

Quote:
See, that's the funny thing. I'm not afraid to stand up for myself. I'm not at all a big guy, and am no longer young, yet I don't feel I need a gun to defend myself.

My chickens, yes. But myself? No.

No offense to those who feel you must carry a gun to feel safe or to defend yourself, mind you, particularly if you are a woman. It just isn't a mentality I can relate to.

 

[Davaroo]

Quote:
Ah. Now we are getting somewhere. So since I have illustrated why the Federal government will never in our lifetime ban guns or even seriously address much needed gun control, we are down to state and local control of the issue.

Let me say I agree with you. This should be in the hands of local folks who want to have a say in what goes on in their state and city. Therefore, if the citizens of either locality believe it is in their best interest to ban some guns and set certain requirements for gun ownership within the bounds of that locality, they should be allowed to do so.

There. A meeting of the minds, finally.

President Obama - when did you slip in, sir?...

"As a general principle, I believe that the Constitution confers an individual right to bear arms. But just because you have an individual right does not mean that the state or local government can’t constrain the exercise of that right, in the same way that we have a right to private property but local governments can establish zoning ordinances that determine how you can use it." - - 2008 Philadelphia primary debate, on eve of PA primary Apr 16, 2008

Did you get that? Just because you have a Constitutional right, doesn't mean it cannot be abridged or constrained.
So, lessee - the point of a citizens constitutional right is what, again?...

 

[Buster52]

Quote:
Ummm... I think you mean Second Amendment. But who's counting?

And when you join the State militia, you let me know.

Why would you need to know? It has nothing to do with the Second Amendment - thankfully that has been reinforced time and time again,

Well, by the NRA perhaps. But the Supreme Court has only addressed it once in its entire history, and that was only a few months ago, and then in a 5/4 split decision with strong dissent. And that for only half of the thing.

So, the true definition of the 2nd is very much up in the air and open to debate.

That said, it doesn't really matter. Even if the 2nd disappeared tomorrow, you would still be able to keep your guns. I own 4 cars and they aren't even mentioned in the Bill of Rights. There are too many gun owners, and even people like me who believe we should allow reasonable restrictions would never support an all out ban.

 

[Davaroo]

"Experience should teach us to be most on our guard to protect liberty when the government’s purposes are beneficial ... the greatest dangers to liberty lurk in insidious encroachment by men of zeal, well meaning but without understanding’’ — Supreme Court Justice Louis D. Brandeis, 1928

Stand firm, buddy. "Reasonable restrictions" sounds an awful lot like "insidious encroachment."

 

[Buster52]

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When I'm allowed to stand outside your bedroom window and hold a rally at 2:00 in the morning with my bull horn practicing my First Amendment right to free speech, I will agree with you there can be no reasonable restrictions on my constitutional rights. Till then, I remain unconvinced.

 

[Davaroo]

Quote:
When I'm allowed to stand outside your bedroom window and hold a rally at 2:00 in the morning with my bull horn practicing my First Amendment right to free speech, I will agree with you there can be no reasonable restrictions on my constitutional rights. Till then, I remain unconvinced.

Oh, piffle on that "allowed to stand outside..." stuff - GO ahead and come on with your bullhorn.
You're confusing rights with social mores.
Things will eventually sort themselves out in my yard - they always do.
Meanwhile, I'll get a cold beer and listen.

 

[Buster52]

Quote:
When I'm allowed to stand outside your bedroom window and hold a rally at 2:00 in the morning with my bull horn practicing my First Amendment right to free speech, I will agree with you there can be no reasonable restrictions on my constitutional rights. Till then, I remain unconvinced.

Oh, piffle on that "allowed to stand outside..." stuff - GO ahead and come on with your bullhorn.
You're confusing rights with social mores.

Interesting distinction. So are you saying there aren't laws in your community that would prevent me from practicing my free speech rights in this case?

 

[Kojack]

Anyone forget what happened in the great country of Australia? Those poor people have to apply for every type of gun there that exists. and unlike here, if not a felon or a wife beater you may legally purchase a firearm, the Australians can be denied a permit to purchase or lose their permit to own at the whim of any govt official. For instance, since I have exercised my right to free speech by writing our dear president many letters over the last few weeks I would guess that if given the power, he would exercise that "whim" upon me. I mean really he has my name on his new "list". The one thing I ask of my Government is to STAY OUT OF MY HOUSE!

 

[Kojack]

Quote:
Oh, piffle on that "allowed to stand outside..." stuff - GO ahead and come on with your bullhorn.
You're confusing rights with social mores.

Interesting distinction. So are you saying there aren't laws in your community that would prevent me from practicing my free speech rights in this case?

Yes there are local laws to keep your bull horn from my window. its called Trespassing and Disturbing the Peace. which are crimes against others or the public. how does the simple ownership of a firearm equal a crime against anyone?

 

[Kojack]

Mohandas K. Gandhi: "Among the many misdeeds of the British rule in India, history will look upon the Act depriving a whole nation of arms as the blackest. If we want the Arms Act to be repealed, if we want to learn the use of arms, here is a golden opportunity. If the middle classes render voluntary help to Government in the hour of its trial, distrust will disappear, and the ban on possessing arms will be withdrawn." Mohandas K. Gandhi, Autobiography: The Story of My Experiments with Truth, Chapter XXVII, Recruiting Campaign, Page 403, Dover paperback edition, 1983.

Admiral Yamamoto: "You cannot invade mainland United States. There would be a rifle behind each blade of grass." Advising Japan's military leaders of the futility of an invasion of the mainland United States because of the widespread availability of guns. It has been theorized that this was a major contributing factor in Japan's decision not to land on North America early in the war when they had vastly superior military strength. This delay gave our industrial infrastructure time to gear up for the conflict and was decisive in our later victory.

The Dalai Lama: "If someone has a gun and is trying to kill you, it would be reasonable to shoot back with your own gun." (May 15, 2001, The Seattle Times)

James Madison: "Americans have the right and advantage of being armed, unlike the people of other countries, whose leaders are afraid to trust them with arms." (Federalist Paper #46)