Gun Owners and Non-Gun Owners should come to a Meeting of the Minds

[warmfuzzies]

I think this is all a good discussion, but a lot of people seem to not realize this is a pointless argument.

It is not about statistics, or logic, or argument. (even though all of that also falls in favor of owning weapons.)

1. If something is a right, it cannot be taken away by any government on earth.

2. Every human has a RIGHT to LIFE. Which means, no matter how much you might agree or disagree, I have a RIGHT to be alive, I have a right to support that life, by feeding and clothing and housing myself and my family. And I have a right to PROTECT and DEFEND that right against anything that threatons it, whether it be animal, man, or government.

3. In the instance a government "takes away" a humans right to defend themselves with guns, they retain that basic right, they just have the tool taken away.

 

[Heelers&Chickens_OhMy]

I feel very attacked so this is my last post. If I was truly 'trolling' I really would have said some rude things and gotten my hand smacked by the moderators. I'm just trying to understand, albeit from an uneducated standpoint, why you want to own guns. This thread is also 25-ish pages long, so it's tough to keep track of who said what. Redhen, I'm sorry if you think I was being snide.

I never intended that my comments be taken literally about all gun owners being rednecks, uneducated, hicks, etc. This is what a city person, who's never owned a gun, never worked with a gun, never seen a reason to use a gun, will think when they hear some one with 20 guns going on about our right to own guns....it's a stereotype that needs to be fought and I still haven't seen how to combat that (can you imagine the field day gov't would have if we suggested gun education in schools? lol)

Yes - I have chickens. 2 I took from a friend to try and cure their bumblefoot, and 3 I've raised since 2 week old chicks. My 3 girls are a white leghorn (Dot), barred rock (Lolita) and an australorp??? (Henrietta). I had a roo, but he started to crow so I culled him and fed him to the dogs.

Boyd asked:

Roughly, where do you live....
What is the population consisting of in your area
Do you live in or around a major city
How much does violent crime affect your life
And have you ever had to defend yourself from an attack?

I was raised in suburban San Diego. I still live in a suburban area. Phoenix is a pretty big city...I think it's the 5th largest city in the US? I have yet to see a violent crime take place near me, my home or my family.

That being said - SWAT has been in the neighborhood I live in now twice in the past year. I am very supportive of owning guns in your home (that you know how to safely operate) to protect your property and family. Better believe I have considered purchasing a gun and going through the necessary training!!

Also I think a problem gun owners run into is the statement 'we need to protect ourselves from government'. I understand that many folks are worried about a V for Vendetta future, but many people feel safe with the politicians they elected. I am worried about corporate greedy interests taking over the world (I think some one mentioned the Columbine shooter was on anti-depressants - girl I'm in total agreement with what you're trying to say there!). Would my fears also result in a Farenheit 451 setting? I don't know, but many people don't see that coming.

You have convinced me that yes, it would be stupid to walk around with an unloaded gun (however, I think part of the problem is understanding bullet in the barrel vs a loaded magazine - good ol' boyfriend explained that part to me last night). I don't think you would get much accomplished with an unloaded gun for protection. I understand that to have a CCW you go through a lot a lot of training...but there is part of me that thinks 'if you wanted to carry a gun all the time, why didn't you become a police officer or join the military'? I don't want to get in a big argument over that, it's just a thought. The world we live in is crazy and I see why you feel the need to protect yourself, but I do feel it's unnecessary all the time. Do I want to take away your rights to a CCW? Absolutely not. Do I feel it's unnecessary - yes. The same way I feel Ferraris and other fast cars are unnecessary - a ford focus does thes same job, just a little slower (I'm sure you could compare that to the police force though

)

Unfortunately, this kind of "what are you, crazy? The police will protect you! We don't need them!" attitude is what gun owners are up against, as I'm sure you're aware. Unfortunately, I think the only way people become educated about guns is either by growing up with them or 'marrying in'. I don't think most people will go through a 25 page thread, be called a troll, and then give you the same conclusions I have. Yes, I am 'ignorant', 'uneducated' when it comes to guns, but I'm open to discussion. Rights are taken away all the time for all kinds of reasons (abortion & women's right to privacy are highly debated hot topics that come to mind) - people need to be shown that guns are not abused, which is hard to prove.​

 

[kagedgoddess]

hey heelers and chickens, i dont think they ment You didnt have chickens, they ment in general there are a few ppl who Only post to p and p and say mean things, but have no byc page, or post in Any other board. i don thtink he ment you.... also I get what you are trying to say, you were being sarcastic devils advocate, trying to get gun owners to think from the "other sides's" perspective... some ppl skim too quick. and i m NOT attacking anyone else, it is hard to keep up with all these pages as to who said what, but i just wanted to not have you leaving feeling badly heelers.

 

[underground chickenman]

Well, it appears we won't reach a universal meeting of the minds on gun ownership, but is there a consensus on the quantity of piano wire, panty hose, parachute chord, ice picks, baseball bats, heavy ashtrays, large vases, kitchen knives, or steel-toed boots one should be allowed to own?

 

[tnlorprazer]

Whew... I've read every post on this thread.

I can't remember who said it, it was a few pages back. Someone said something like 'if you don't feel safe going without a gun I don't go with one'.

Some of us have to go through rough parts of town to gain entry into other parts of town... All doctors, dentists, walmart etc... are in Memphis from where I live. And Memphis was just voted the 2nd most dangerous city right under Detroit.

To go to my MIL home, I have to go through some parts of Memphis that I do not feel safe in. (Some parts that the cops won't even go into, and I've been told this by the cops themselves and they do tell me to carry my gun) I can't go 'around' these parts of town and Memphis has multiple shootings everyday on the news. So, I can't not go just because I don't feel safe but I do make sure I have gas etc before I get to those parts so I don't have to stop. But what happens that one day my car breaks down or I get a flat etc and its just me and my 3 DD. So, for some of us we can't just go where we feel safe. And yes, if I could move to where I felt safe I would. So, I do carry my glock 26 9mm with me at all times. And DH carries a glock 27 40 cal.

 

[horsejody]

Quote:
No, all law abiding citizens should all wear jammies and slippers and have no heavy or sharp objects within reach. It might also be beneficial to have our hands tied behind our backs too. After all, we might hurt ourselves.

 

[WalkingWolf]

"It might also be beneficial to have our hands tied behind our backs too"

Jody, PLEASE do not give the feds any ideas.

 

[WalkingWolf]

Any doubts why we need to able to protect ourselves from the government is clear in this Youtube video.

 

[ducks4you]

Heelers&Chickens_OhMy ,

I am 51 years old. I remember when many rights that were taken for granted when I was a kid, are no longer rights.
Thank of yourself in school:
One kid abuses a privilege, so the teacher takes this privilege away from the whole class. Did you think that this was fair? I never did.

I just read the Bill, HR 45, which is an ammendment to a 1986 bill on gun control. The bill (amendment) claims that interstate commerce of guns is the cause of American deaths, and the solution is to crack down further on American gun owners who are already following the laws to own them. It states, further, that EVERY gun you own needs to be listed on our 2009 tax returns. This is new. It makes it illegal to NOT register any guns that are stolen. ILLEGAL?!?!?Further, it states that an American must be 18 years of age or older to handle a gun. Currently, EVEN in the State of Illinois (where so MANY of these ideas are coming from), 12 year olds can take a gun safety course and pass and own a gun-owners license and own a gun. JUST LIKE our tax hikes, this amendment will go into effect one year after being passed, so IT will be passed largely unnoticed. Do you hear
A N Y B O D Y in the media talking about it?
**crickets chirping in Washington, D.C. newsrooms**

In the 1950's and 1960's people used to send some Christmas cards with pictures of hunters walking in from the fields, shotguns resting backwards on their shoulders. I saved one of them, because of the artistry. Mr. Brady, I think, honestly thought that a Bill controlling guns would help America because he was handicapped by a bullet. I do not believe that our Federal Government has our best interests at heart. I truly believe that they wish to take away our rights to legally own a gun. There is no plan to destroy the actual guns, just to move them somewhere else to someone else. AND the criminals will still have their guns, except they'll know that no citizens can shoot back when they come to steal your stuff, or...do worse things to you and yours.
I am ready to defend you and yours, and I won't be angry if you do not want to defend yourself with a gun. I have a great respect for pacifists of the past, like the Quakers.

The LAST fight that resembled THIS ONE had it's heroes. Dr. King and Rosa Parks recognized that things were wrong, and did what needed to be done to make it right. Dr. King paid with his life. I HOPE that we don't come to that.

THIS is why gun owners are so hot under the collar.

 

[warmfuzzies]

I agree with everything you are saying, Ducks4you, But I thought the NRA said that bill was old, like back in 1999 or something..... I dont know. I couldnt find the one listed in the e-mail I got, when I looked on opencongress. But maybe It had a different number on it.

BUT regardless, the point is the same!

Heelers&chickens, I am sorry you felt attacked. I got what you were saying, you were trying to explain the thinking of other people. I think we would be wise to listen and heed, so that we understand the way others see the world. We need clarity, because to us it is just crazy to think of guns as dangerous or bad.

I for one appreciate the insight into the 'other side' so to speak. We need to educate, not yell and hollar.