Gurgling/rattle breathing sound - cannot purchase antibiotics

[bluewithflowers]

Hello,
Hopefully this is the right thread to post.

We just received an unplanned "gift" flock of 20 little red hens recently, and planned to pass half along to friends this week when they finish their coop. The owner is a family friend and due to an unfortuate circumstance, could no longer keep them. Unfortunately... we have found two to be sick with respiratory symptoms (gurgling, sneezing, etc), and found out today that we can't purchase antibiotics from farm stores anymore (we are in Ontario, Canada). The vet pricing is beyond our budget for dealing with 1.5 year old birds that just arrived here. Of course we don't want to cull the whole flock, but I understand that antibiotics is the only effective treatment?

The coop is partitioned, but these birds currently have the full run of it because there are so many. They haven't been outside and we don't have any other birds right now. However, we do have 30 chicks coming in two weeks and they were supposed to go in the other partition eventually, but now I understand that without treatment and a deep clean, every bird going into the coop will probably catch this infection?? The laying chicks are breeds we chose for our cold winters, and we're more interested in keeping them happy and healthy.

Is there anything we can do?

The coop is bright and dry with good airflow, clean straw bedding, on layer mash, water with ACV replaced daily, they get kitchen scraps and we are getting lots of normal-looking eggs every day (I haven't counted), and haven't noticed any unusual poops.

TIA for any advice.

 

[dawg53]

Whatever respiratory disease they have will be transmitted to your new incoming chicks and other birds you may acquire.
Antibiotics simply mask symptoms, they do not cure. Surviving birds are carriers for life and will spread the disease to other birds. Do not give sick birds to your friends whether they show symptoms or not. Respiratory diseases can be spread from your person, clothes, shoes to other birds. Additionally, coops will have to be decontaminated as well as waterers and feeders. Depending what disease it is, soil will have to be sterilized as well.

 

[igorsMistress]

You can try natural treatment. Grapefruit seed extract is a broad spectrum anti everything. 30 drops in a gallon waterer for 14 days helped my flock. Chopped garlic, dill, thyme, parsley also. I just put it in a dish for them every day. I treated everyone not just those who were showing symptoms.

Good luck!

 

[bluewithflowers]

Whatever respiratory disease they have will be transmitted to your new incoming chicks and other birds you may acquire.
Antibiotics simply mask symptoms, they do not cure. Surviving birds are carriers for life and will spread the disease to other birds. Do not give sick birds to your friends whether they show symptoms or not. Respiratory diseases can be spread from your person, clothes, shoes to other birds. Additionally, coops will have to be decontaminated as well as waterers and feeders. Depending what disease it is, soil will have to be sterilized as well.

Thanks for the response. Ugh, that's what I feared... I so regret getting these birds. Yes, we were going to hang on to the birds and hopefully treat them before sending them off, I did not realize they will always be carriers though. So, you say cull the flock then..? How would you decontaminate a wooden coop and the soil?

 

[dawg53]

As far as your coop goes, you can disinfect with activated Oxine or bleachwater.
https://www.shagbarkbantams.com/the-many-uses-of-oxine-ah-animal-health/
The soil can be sterilized in several ways; burning, steaming or laying clear plastic over the contaminated area for several months and let the sun do its job.
Now, if the infectious disease is a Mycoplasma disease (Mycoplasma Gallisepticum (MG) or Mycoplasma Synoviae (MS,) the disease will only last in the environment for 3 days.
MG is common in flocks due to the lack of biosecurity. It's entirely possible your sick birds might have MG. If there is a way that you can get your sickest bird tested, and it turns out that it's MG, you might not have to go through all the sterilizing procedures.
However, I still recommend sanitizing coops, feeders, waterers, nest boxes and roosts. A one gallon sprayer containing bleachwater would be easiest to spray inside the coop.
You really need to get your sickest bird tested to find out exactly what you're dealing with. You can contact your local extension office and find out how to go about doing this or perhaps a vet can help out.

 

[Eggcessive]

Have you considered keeping all of the birds since they are laying eggs, and closing the flock to new birds (cancel your chick order?) You could try to get a couple tested or sacrifice one for a necropsy to get a diagnosis. Then go from there. Perhaps cull them when they start to molt and are no longer laying? Some chickens may get sick and some may not, depending on the illness. Secondary infections can happen as well. @dawg53 has given excellent advice. Sorry that you are dealing with this mess.

There are a handful of respiratory diseases such as infectious bronchitis and ILT, both viruses that do not respond to antibiotics. ILT is more mild than other diseases. MG or mycoplasma can be treated with several antibiotics. The viruses can last a bit longer in your environment in frozen droppings out in your field. You could easily get chicks next year after dealing with this illness, and possibly culling the flock. These are just some suggestions, and you can do some reading in the meantime. Call your provincial poultry facility to find out where to get a necropsy or testing. Where are you located?

Here is a good link where you can read about diseases and symptoms:
https://edis.ifas.ufl.edu/ps044

 

[bluewithflowers]

As far as your coop goes, you can disinfect with activated Oxine or bleachwater.
https://www.shagbarkbantams.com/the-many-uses-of-oxine-ah-animal-health/
The soil can be sterilized in several ways; burning, steaming or laying clear plastic over the contaminated area for several months and let the sun do its job.
Now, if the infectious disease is a Mycoplasma disease (Mycoplasma Gallisepticum (MG) or Mycoplasma Synoviae (MS,) the disease will only last in the environment for 3 days.
MG is common in flocks due to the lack of biosecurity. It's entirely possible your sick birds might have MG. If there is a way that you can get your sickest bird tested, and it turns out that it's MG, you might not have to go through all the sterilizing procedures.
However, I still recommend sanitizing coops, feeders, waterers, nest boxes and roosts. A one gallon sprayer containing bleachwater would be easiest to spray inside the coop.
You really need to get your sickest bird tested to find out exactly what you're dealing with. You can contact your local extension office and find out how to go about doing this or perhaps a vet can help out.

Thank you. We talked to a vet this afternoon who will take a look at a bird this week. He mentioned respiratory viruses being grouped into three categories - those that are treatable or will run its course like a cold, those with treatable symptoms but will recur with stress, and those that are extremely contagious/not treatable and require culling. He did say most flocks have some form of respiratory problems. We'll have to figure out how to clean the coop without letting them run around outside, maybe they'll have to sit in boxes for a little while. Thanks again for the good advice.

 

[bluewithflowers]

Have you considered keeping all of the birds since they are laying eggs, and closing the flock to new birds (cancel your chick order?) You could try to get a couple tested or sacrifice one for a necropsy to get a diagnosis. Then go from there. Perhaps cull them when they start to molt and are no longer laying? Some chickens may get sick and some may not, depending on the illness. Secondary infections can happen as well. @dawg53 has given excellent advice. Sorry that you are dealing with this mess.

There are a handful of respiratory diseases such as infectious bronchitis and ILT, both viruses that do not respond to antibiotics. ILT is more mild than other diseases. MG or mycoplasma can be treated with several antibiotics. The viruses can last a bit longer in your environment in frozen droppings out in your field. You could easily get chicks next year after dealing with this illness, and possibly culling the flock. These are just some suggestions, and you can do some reading in the meantime. Call your provincial poultry facility to find out where to get a necropsy or testing. Where are you located?

Here is a good link where you can read about diseases and symptoms:
https://edis.ifas.ufl.edu/ps044

Thanks for the info. Yes my first reaction is definitely "Get them out of here!!!", haha. It crossed my mind to keep them, but we've only had these birds for around a week. We planned to get chicks that would fare better over our cold winters (north-central Ontario, Canada), and these ones have large combs that will surely get frostbitten. I spent a bad winter dealing with some unpleasantly blistered combs, though the pea-comb and fluffy Brahma-mix birds were happy all winter. Prev owner ran heat lamps for these ones, we do not and won't. Yes they are laying (we had 11 eggs today from 18 birds, prev owner said they just went through a molt, but who knows), though I'd rather do the deep clean soon than after a year of housing sick birds who will have to run around outside in the summer. We only planned to keep these for 7months or so, until our other birds started laying, these will be 2 years by then. Just to tide us over. As mentioned above, we did find a vet who'll check a sick bird and we'll find out what the damage might be. Thanks for your response!

 

[bluewithflowers]

You can try natural treatment. Grapefruit seed extract is a broad spectrum anti everything. 30 drops in a gallon waterer for 14 days helped my flock. Chopped garlic, dill, thyme, parsley also. I just put it in a dish for them every day. I treated everyone not just those who were showing symptoms.

Good luck!

Thanks for the response! It seems like this might be an ongoing thing that will infect the upcoming batch of birds we originally planned on (this flock was a bit of a surprise), but I'll keep your suggestions in mind for the next group.

 

[Eggcessive]

Glad that you found a knowledgeble vet and can get some testing or a necropsy done. Sounds like you have a good plan. This type of thing is really a learning experience. Good luck.