Gypsy Vanner Horse Owners I need your knowledge

[georgialee]

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What's the point of that? Mustangs are run down - nearly to death - by helicopters here because they're unwanted. It doesn't make them a bad breed. There are many breeds that are imported to other countries and sold for much more money than they were bought for. It all comes down to supply and demand. Is it the money people get hung up on??? Geez.

 

[Hound]

I didn't say a bad word about the 'breed'. Just that it is very much a case of one man's trash is another man's treasure. It's probably something the US breeders want to keep quiet though

 

[georgialee]

That's the way the world works. For ex: llamas, alpacas, ostriches, etc. You could find those animals in the wild in other countries yet they were selling for thousands here when they were first introduced.

And really, could you be more condescending? When someone starts a thread about liking gypsy vanners you shouldn't be alluding to them being trash. Not nice.

 

[Hound]

I must have hit a nerve, as I said previously I have nothing against the horses themselves. I pity the ones living in unfit conditions. I was drawing attention to the romanticised story behind the so-called breed. If someone was importing similar-looking pound mutts, charging top dollar for them and claiming they were 'Gypsy Terriers' wouldn't you find it a little ridiculous? Maybe the lurcher trend is next

 

[georgialee]

Rude people in general hit a nerve with me. Their heritage isn't romanticized. They were caravan horses of the Romany people. Obviously with the invention of cars they're no longer used for that but it doesn't mean it's not part of their heritage.

 

[onecent]

How about this beautiful guy! this is Hessel hes a friesian close looking to the vanner just much more $$$

and this beautiful vanner!

 

[Hound]

Just a few snippets from breeders' websites

The Gypsy Vanner Horse is a beautiful and rare new breed of horse envisioned by the European Gypsies. These horses have been selectively bred over the past 50 years to create a kind of small Shire that is colorful enough to match their caravans.

These horses, bred by the Gypsies, are easily recognizable by their long, flowing manes and tails, and the profusion of feathers on their legs. These make them look as if they fly when they run.

Gypsy Vanners are extremely gentle. These horses were bred by the Gypsies only partially for looks - the other part was for gentleness. Gypsy children are often found crawling over and around the Gypsy Vanners.

Watch out for them when you go to check your pastures

For the next four calendar years our mission was to understand the origins of this hidden breed and to identify the men who have dedicated their lives in the pursuit of a dream that began over half a century ago. The dream was to create the perfect horse to pull the distinctive caravans so unique to the Gypsy culture. Our journey was a kaleidoscope of discovery from one of the world's most colorful and least understood societies. Not only did we identify the bloodlines of these fascinating and beautiful horses, we sat in caravans that are the colorful castles of a people with an inexplicable urge to move on. We discovered music we had never heard, that moves your feet and stirs your soul. We felt the passion of a people for their horses as we walked by the light of the moon in secluded fields where horses stood tethered. A slap of the hand is your receipt and a little money back just to bring you luck are customs we learned that are unique to a society that has struggled for centuries for the right to be a little different and the freedom to roam

In the gently rolling hills of North Central Arkansas, dreams born of Romany Gypsies, emerge quietly from the woodlands

At least they decided to drop the registered trademark.​

 

[welsummerchicks]

I think Friesian owners and breeders would have a COW if you said Friesians looked anything like Gypsy Vanners. I think they look about as much the same as a Rolls Royce looks to a 1972 Volkswagon bug.

I don't think she was rude at all. 'Rude' is not the same as 'disagrees with me' or 'dislikes something I like'. She merely stated her attitude and it is a very, very commonly held attitude about the Gypsy Vanners.

The horses are indeed, not very good quality. The conformation and temperament are less important to the gypsies and are varied and unreliable. Color and flashiness is more important.

But...I think people overdo in the 'angry' department. Relax, this is the American market, it has always had a segment like that. There's no sense in getting mad about it. And no point. It's not going to change. Alot of Americans are just - they're like that. Most of them know nothing about horses, have no interest in showing, know nothing about conformation or performance - and horses are a status symbol and a lawn ornament.

AND...those people are also, if you get to know them, pretty darn nice. Many of them take very good care of their horses, are eager to learn MORE about basic care, and are kind and caring folks in general. Get to know them, and you might not be so 'outraged'.

The conformation is typically - a heavy, thick neck that keeps horses from 'getting into the bridle' like a horse with a better neck and join to the head, a straight shoulder, weak back with a slack loin, narrow, steeply sloped hind quarters, and 'drafty feet' - flat soles and no heel, or rather narrow and mule like feet. That makes for shuffling, choppy gaits. The canter is typically 'drafty', and can be hard to get the horse to canter at first, like in other drafty built horses. It's then generally very flat and 4 beat, or even pacey. They don't 'move throug the back' like sportier horses, but people typically like the 'sitting on a couch on wheels' effect that gives. In the saddle, the rider feels more small bumps and jerks than a big wave of motion that pops him out of the saddle.

When it started, a few horses were bought for a few hundred pounds or much less, and then sold in the US for incredible amounts - even as an old timer, it shocked me. Whole planes could be bellied up with weanlings jammed in side by side, bought for virtually nothing, so it wasn't about recouping investments. It was about making what many people felt was an obscene amount of profit.

The reaction of American breeders losing business to the GV has not exactly been loving acceptance. For a time, quite a few were furious and argued back that they spent YEARS culling genetic disease, carefully selecting sire and dam, and paying top dollar for registered breeding stock. Spending lots of money on worming, shoeing, vaccines and hiring trainers...OF COURSE they resented it. Not only that, their horses were intended for a USE - not just standing around looking poofy. And they worked very hard to produce good conformation and temperament. YES they resented this sudden burst of attention to the GV.

Now, things have cooled down some. American breeders are breeding their own Gypsy Vanners and selling them here. The prices are still ridiculous, weanlings are going for fifteen to twenty five thousand dollars. Many dealers didn't import a single horse, just bought horses already here.

The conformation hasn't changed much. The build is still indifferent, drafty, coarse. The colors have diversified, buyers were getting bored with pinto and wanted 'something different'. But people have to remember, this animal is not aimed at a performance market, as a whole. They're aimed at a very, very different market. The novice 'hair and color' market, that is impressed by leg hair and color. Wouldn't know how to evaluate conformation, and not too concerned about how the animal's gaits measure up to a competition standard.

At this point, it's up to the American breeders, to go for more substance - improve the conformation, feet and gaits. Show their horses in those low level performance classes and prove they're more than just poofy and colorful.

Mostly, they've been showing up in lower level dressage where they can win based solely on obedience - lower level pleasure driving, ditto. Not in top sport, where they would have to change in conformation and gait markedly to succeed.

But most people wouldn't know conformation if it came up and bit 'em. All they see is poofy legs and color, and that's all they'll ever see. The price is what they have to spend, and they like the romantic background....and the US market has always had a segment of buyers like that.

A few years ago it was Friesians, now it's GV; this part of the market is ALWAYS like that. You can't fight it, kid, you may as well relax, sit back and enjoy the show.

 

[dutchhollow]

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They do this everyday, except they call them labradoodles, goldendoodles, chipoos, puggles, oh I can't even think of any of the other crazy things people call mutts and charge 8 to 12 hundred dollars for! Note: not using mutt as a degrogatory term, just what they are.

 

[georgialee]

Of course breeders are going to romanticize them. Just like breeders of almost every other animal romanticize their breed/species/what have you. A discerning person will go to independent sites for history, conformation standards, etc.

In regards to being rude, I'm sorry but if someone was face to face with me and we were having a conversation about gypsy vanners (knowing that I had them) and they said "looks like you bought another man's trash"... that would be rude! Just because we are in an online forum does not mean one can disregard manners that would be expected in the 'real' world.

Everyone is entitled to an opinion... but in this particular thread it was not asked for. The title of the post is not "Please disparage gypsy vanners in every way you know how" or "I love gypsy vanners but I want someone to tell me I'm an idiot for buying a second rate good for nothing mutt". Really, people.