halti and gentle leader dog harnesses

[Brindlebtch]

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This is so true. And frequently the owner will blame the dog when it can't perform well because of their poor timing.



HOWEVER.
I prefer prong collars. Period. Don't like chokes and don't like haltis as I have seen injuries from both. It is harder for a challenged owner to physically damage a dog with a prong.

 

[Willow's Meadow]

They are both awesome in that they teach your dog to heel and they won't pull. However I had to stop using them because my GSD would slip right out of it and I'm sure any other dog could.......had a friend whos dog ran across the street after he slipped out!!! They are very loose and UNsecure! I wouldn't recommend them unless you used it plus a regular collar with another leash for safety purposes.

 

[babyblue]

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Akane, I have to disagree with you. There are dogs (and horses) who have already learned some tricks they need to unlearn and you just have to get their attention. I've worked dogs who would merrily crush their windpipe against a flat buckle collar, they needed something else.

The person who started the whole Halti thing was a horse trainer who knew (as you and I do) that if you control the nose (leverage) you control the beast. I am a little bigger then you at 120 and have laid out a horse (warmblood) by applying pressure to the cotton lead attached to the leather halter at just the right moment. And like Jamie Dog Trainer said, you can do the same thing to a dog if you're not careful. Just about anything can be harsh.
Incidentally, I've also had the unique experience of working horses who's owner liked collars - big old cow collars up behind the ears - instead of halters. If you tried to make them do anything with the collar they didn't want, they'd stick their noses in the air and drag you off, even if you were at an angle that dragged on their windpipe and they were choking while they did it (just like dogs) When you put a halter on one they'd throw a little sulk or tantrum (just like dogs above) and then behave (just like dogs above)

While I've never used (nor ever would, any more then I'd make a dog collar out of razor wire) a twisted wire gag bit, I have rehabbed horses back to a plain snaffle from one, and I've paid the bills by training dogs. And with some dogs, they've learned to manipulate the equipment used and need something different. It doesn't mean you'll go on to "more severe training devices" It means that you get the dogs attention, teach him the person on the other end of the leash is capable of communication, then fine-tune that communication.

The OP is working with a trainer, who recommended a piece of equipment.
My advice to the OP is; if you trust the trainer, work with them and take their advice. It's what you're paying them for.
If you're not comfortable, find a different trainer.
Any tool is as kind or cruel as the hands that use it. A halter can be the gentlest way to handle a dog or you can about break one's neck with it. Don't use anything in a way you're not comfortable with or your animal is unsafe with.

this is wise advice.

 

[Brindlebtch]

It really is good advice. Don't do anything you are not comfortable with. I did when I was training my first dog and I always regretted it. And it was advice given to me by my trainer at the time.

 

[thebritt]

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Wow! What an interesting study...I knew I hated those things, but sometimes, out of frustration or desperation, people will try anything. I know I had when I was trying to retrain an 8 yr old rescue dog. He had had a thin choke chain all his life - no fur where it was - so I didn't use one. But I did try the Gentle Leader, a prong collar, a Halt harness, and some other kind of harness - all to no avail. He still always pulled. But then, he was a basket case due to his previous owner's behavior.
I tried the Gentle Leader with our Bouvier/shepard mix, and he acted like I was killing him. His normally curled up tail hung limply, he whined, and he said he'd walk nice if I didn't use that thing ever again. So I didn't and he did!

 

[Brindlebtch]

I know 2 people (both men) who collapsed their pit bull's tracheas with their choke collars.

 

[redhen]

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I knew a lady that did that to her cocker spaniel too...
(who in the he&& needs a choke on a cocker spaniel anyways??...

..)

 

[Brindlebtch]

Lots of cockers have bad temperaments or are brainlessly spastic. They need straight jackets.

DON'T GET ME WRONG! LOTS OF NICE COCKERS, TOO! So nobody flame me.

 

[justbugged]

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Any collar will work on this technique. I don't ever have a choke chain on my babies. This works on a 11 year old Komondor that has always gotten his own way most of his life. I was shown this technique, and I can actually walk the dog. Before he was just dragging me around, and I outweigh him by a hundred pounds. The harness was nearly worthless on him. I just pull his woven collar up to the back of his ears, and I then have the dog and he stays right beside me.

Harnesses are great for little dogs. I love them in that application.

 

[RiverOtter]

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Yeah, and flat collars are actually the worst for that sort of thing. At least with a chain, if you pop-and-release like you're supposed to, the dog basically gets a pop on the back of the neck. With a flat collar, all corrections are pretty much against the windpipe.

Me, if a dog doesn't charge, I like a prong. But sadly lots of dogs have learned to just throw themselves at the end of a leash and I've seen it happen (not often, but I've seen it) that when the dog makes the sudden, hard lunge, they get punctured. They sell little rubber tips to prevent that. But in that case I'd rather use a fur-saver type chain collar - the one with the long links.

And really, I'd rather see something gimmicky used if it's the difference between a dog keeping it's home and a trip to the pound. I've had owners (not dogs, but owners) who just would not follow through and finally I just told them to get one of these http://www.sporn.com/cgi-bin/commerce.exe?preadd=action&key=SPUS100
At least you can't hurt a dog with one and the dog gets to keep it's home.

But, as a dog trainer, may I beg people to PLEASE, if you're going to PAY YOUR GOOD MONEY to a trainer 1) See if their own dog is one you'd be happy to live with
2) Do what they say!!!
It is a source of endless frustration to me when people go out of their way, seek me out, offer me money to HELP them and then don't listen to anything I say, have a better idea, Uncle Tony never did it thatway, never follow through, etc.