Hands on hatching and help

[jenniferlamar70]

Would love some advice!

First off - I'm incubating 7 eggs right now that were under a broody who quit after 2 weeks, and she'd been sitting on them inconsistently for a couple of days at that point, but apparently just enough to keep them alive. This was broody's first time to be broody (at 4 years of age, even, it was weird!) and she never plucked her breast, so not sure if humidity early on was ever what it should have been. Eggs went under the broody (in a private cage inside the house, because our roo is weirdly obsessive about what goes on in the nest boxes) on Tuesday, June 7th. So we're on day... 24 now? We went on 'lockdown' on day 18. I'm using a Brinsea Mini Eco incubator, but it doesn't have a humidity detector, so just keeping the water well filled.

Two eggs seemed to also be developing slower than the others, but are now catching up. I have been candling 2x/day (morning and evening) since day... 21/22? One of those. I am definitely a hands-on hatcher, even if this is only my first hatch. Screw lockdown. They were 'late'.

Over last night and today, we finally have internal pips! First chick pipped sometime yesterday before 9 pm (I had last candled between 5 and 6 that morning). Two more pipped right then, and then three more pipped overnight between 2 pm and 5 am (when I get up every morning). I'm pretty sure #7 has internally pipped at some point mid-morning today, but I'm not seeing a good view of it so not completely positive. (This is all internal pipping.)

20 minutes ago - I got cheeps from #1 internal pipper! Still no sign of EXTERNAL pipping on any of them, though, and I candled again. Air cells are definitely getting bigger, but #1's is really big and looks to be conforming to the shape of the chick, and I can't see a definitive beak anywhere. I *can* see it breathing, but wondering if it is malpositioned, and possibly worried about 'shrink-wrapping'. Since I don't know for sure if it's been 24 hours since it internally pipped, should I wait much longer (it will have DEFINITELY been 24 hours by 9 pm tonight - currently 2:40 pm), or try and open it up from the air cell end?

I can't answer all your questions but you do need to slow down on candling. They should still be locked down and even with a hands on approach their are safe ways to do things. @AmyLynn2374 should be able to help with the rest..

 

[AmyLynn2374]

Would love some advice!

First off - I'm incubating 7 eggs right now that were under a broody who quit after 2 weeks, and she'd been sitting on them inconsistently for a couple of days at that point, but apparently just enough to keep them alive. This was broody's first time to be broody (at 4 years of age, even, it was weird!) and she never plucked her breast, so not sure if humidity early on was ever what it should have been. Eggs went under the broody (in a private cage inside the house, because our roo is weirdly obsessive about what goes on in the nest boxes) on Tuesday, June 7th. So we're on day... 24 now? We went on 'lockdown' on day 18. I'm using a Brinsea Mini Eco incubator, but it doesn't have a humidity detector, so just keeping the water well filled.

Two eggs seemed to also be developing slower than the others, but are now catching up. I have been candling 2x/day (morning and evening) since day... 21/22? One of those. I am definitely a hands-on hatcher, even if this is only my first hatch. Screw lockdown. They were 'late'.

Over last night and today, we finally have internal pips! First chick pipped sometime yesterday before 9 pm (I had last candled between 5 and 6 that morning). Two more pipped right then, and then three more pipped overnight between 2 pm and 5 am (when I get up every morning). I'm pretty sure #7 has internally pipped at some point mid-morning today, but I'm not seeing a good view of it so not completely positive. (This is all internal pipping.)

20 minutes ago - I got cheeps from #1 internal pipper! Still no sign of EXTERNAL pipping on any of them, though, and I candled again. Air cells are definitely getting bigger, but #1's is really big and looks to be conforming to the shape of the chick, and I can't see a definitive beak anywhere. I *can* see it breathing, but wondering if it is malpositioned, and possibly worried about 'shrink-wrapping'. Since I don't know for sure if it's been 24 hours since it internally pipped, should I wait much longer (it will have DEFINITELY been 24 hours by 9 pm tonight - currently 2:40 pm), or try and open it up from the air cell end?

There's no beak showing in the air cell, but you see the rise and fall of breathing on the high side of the egg right? Yeah, that can be iffy. Here's the thing, you could put a safety hole in the air cell, which won't do any good especially w/o an internal pip. You could attempt to find the beak, but, if it has turned and or is malepositioned finding the beak will likely end with ripping through still heavily veined membrane. There is no "good" answer. I don't attempt to go into an unpipped shell because the chance of causing bleed out is great. It's rare that an assist before the chick has externally pipped and had many hours for the egg to chick vascular system to shut down to be succesfull. I wouldn't, but you more or less have to make a judgment call. I have the mindset that there is not much that you can do before an external pip, there's a chance the chick won't make it, but assisting before a certain time generally has the same outcome. The air cell does draw down significantly on one side of the egg and that's normal. (Not saying shrink wrapping is impossible, just that there is a degree of normalcy there.

I can't answer all your questions but you do need to slow down on candling. They should still be locked down and even with a hands on approach their are safe ways to do things. @AmyLynn2374 should be able to help with the rest..

Depends who you are...lol @AmyLynn2374 candles all the way through if she feels the urge, even during hatching...lol

 

[Pyxis]

I can't answer all your questions but you do need to slow down on candling. They should still be locked down and even with a hands on approach their are safe ways to do things. [@=/u/312169/AmyLynn2374]@AmyLynn2374[/@] should be able to help with the rest..

Depends who you are...lol @AmyLynn2374
  candles all the way through if she feels the urge, even during hatching...lol

Same! I just can't help it. "Are they internally pipped now? How about now?" Lol.

 

[teaandyarn]

There's no beak showing in the air cell, but you see the rise and fall of breathing on the high side of the egg right? Yeah, that can be iffy. Here's the thing, you could put a safety hole in the air cell, which won't do any good especially w/o an internal pip. You could attempt to find the beak, but, if it has turned and or is malepositioned finding the beak will likely end with ripping through still heavily veined membrane. There is no "good" answer. I don't attempt to go into an unpipped shell because the chance of causing bleed out is great. It's rare that an assist before the chick has externally pipped and had many hours for the egg to chick vascular system to shut down to be succesfull. I wouldn't, but you more or less have to make a judgment call. I have the mindset that there is not much that you can do before an external pip, there's a chance the chick won't make it, but assisting before a certain time generally has the same outcome. The air cell does draw down significantly on one side of the egg and that's normal. (Not saying shrink wrapping is impossible, just that there is a degree of normalcy there.

Depends who you are...lol @AmyLynn2374 candles all the way through if she feels the urge, even during hatching...lol

By 'high side' of the egg, you mean the wide end, right? In that case, yes. I am pretty sure it internally pipped somehow, because last night there was shadow beyond the defined line of the air sack, if that makes sense?

Glad to know that it drawing down is normal.

I did switch to a slightly smaller tip on my candler, and was able to see a bit more, and traced the air sack as well as I could. Pictures below, and I'm wondering if there might be a beak? It's just not super well defined, but I don't have a room that can be darkened so for more clarity I have to wait until it's dark tonight. Chick is definitely still cheeping, but it sounds quieter now than it did earlier, but I'm going to try not to read too much into it.

On this first photo, the line that dips down the furthest and then peaks back up is the correct shape. Could that peak be a beak?


Same egg from the other side.



The egg is slightly longer than it appears in these photos, because of the angle I had to take them at. The air sack is really only covering about 1/3 of the egg total.

EDIT: Oh, and I keep forgetting to mention that I noticed a hairline crack in the air sack end of this egg probably day 21/22, because I didn't candle at all from Day 18-21 and kept the incubator closed. It probably happened when I pulled the turner out. Could that affect possibility of shrink wrapping?

 

[jenniferlamar70]

There's no beak showing in the air cell, but you see the rise and fall of breathing on the high side of the egg right?  Yeah, that can be iffy. Here's the thing, you could put a safety hole in the air cell, which won't do any good especially w/o an internal pip. You could attempt to find the beak, but, if it has turned and or is malepositioned finding the beak will likely end with ripping through still heavily veined membrane. There is no "good" answer. I don't attempt to go into an unpipped shell because the chance of causing bleed out is great. It's rare that an assist before the chick has externally pipped and had many hours for the egg to chick vascular system to shut down to be succesfull. I wouldn't, but you more or less have to make a judgment call.  I have the mindset that there is not much that you can do before an external pip, there's a chance the chick won't make it, but assisting before a certain time generally has the same outcome. The air cell does draw down significantly on one side of the egg and that's normal. (Not saying shrink wrapping is impossible, just that there is a degree of normalcy there.

Depends who you are...lol @AmyLynn2374
  candles all the way through if she feels the urge, even during hatching...lol

Same! I just can't help it. "Are they internally pipped now? How about now?" Lol.

Yeah but you both know what your doing lol. That's why I put a way to do it safely lol.

 

[jenniferlamar70]

Yeah but you both know what your doing lol. That's why I put a way to do it safely lol.

Geez you guys are bad influences lmao. Now I want to candle my silkies. Day 20 and I'm dying over here. I do need to top off their water. No one has externally pipped yet.. nope I'm waiting.. I hope lol

 

[AmyLynn2374]

Same! I just can't help it. "Are they internally pipped now? How about now?" Lol.

You know it!!!

lol

By 'high side' of the egg, you mean the wide end, right? In that case, yes. I am pretty sure it internally pipped somehow, because last night there was shadow beyond the defined line of the air sack, if that makes sense?

Glad to know that it drawing down is normal.

I did switch to a slightly smaller tip on my candler, and was able to see a bit more, and traced the air sack as well as I could. Pictures below, and I'm wondering if there might be a beak? It's just not super well defined, but I don't have a room that can be darkened so for more clarity I have to wait until it's dark tonight. Chick is definitely still cheeping, but it sounds quieter now than it did earlier, but I'm going to try not to read too much into it.

On this first photo, the line that dips down the furthest and then peaks back up is the correct shape. Could that peak be a beak?


Same egg from the other side.



The egg is slightly longer than it appears in these photos, because of the angle I had to take them at. The air sack is really only covering about 1/3 of the egg total.

EDIT: Oh, and I keep forgetting to mention that I noticed a hairline crack in the air sack end of this egg probably day 21/22, because I didn't candle at all from Day 18-21 and kept the incubator closed. It probably happened when I pulled the turner out. Could that affect possibility of shrink wrapping?

By high side I meant the back (opposite) of the side that's drawn dawn but yes, at the wide end/air cell in. A hair line crack I wouldn't think would pose much of a risk humidity wise, especially with no membranes showing and higher humidity.

Yeah but you both know what your doing lol. That's why I put a way to do it safely lol.

What's there to know? You keep your humidity up and don't drop an egg....lol

Geez you guys are bad influences lmao. Now I want to candle my silkies. Day 20 and I'm dying over here. I do need to top off their water. No one has externally pipped yet.. nope I'm waiting.. I hope lol

Good luck on that.....lol

 

[teaandyarn]

Mmk, well in that case, the little peak and such is where I see the most movement from the chick, but I do see SOME movement from all around the edges of the air cell when I candle. The high side is solid chick and I can't see anything but body mass there.

 

[ShanandGem]

@teaandyarn I feel like maybe the time the hen spent on the eggs didn't cause them to begin to incubate and that process started when you put them in the bator. If that's the case, they are right on schedule. If it were me, and I know it's hard, I would not candle so much and just let the process unfold.

 

[Pyxis]

Well, I had to rescue a chick today. Somehow a broody hen hatched an egg in a storage crate that had holes in the bottom that was sitting over an old rabbit cage. The hen managed to flip up the bottom I ha put in it to cover the holes and the chick hatched, fell through, and then somehow also fell through the grate of the rabbit cage. What's worse is that its yolk wasn't all the way absorbed. When I found it it was cold and I thought dead, but when I picked it up it moved. The yolk was really gross and there was only a tiny bit left so I washed it up and then put the chick in the incubator. It has absorbed the remaining yolk and is still alive so fingers crossed. I'm not going to get too hopeful though because that was a really rough start. If it does survive and seems to be doing good tomorrow I'll likely give it back to the broody.