Hands on hatching and help

[Ravynscroft]

Sorry to hear you lost it. Good question. When I was searching for the articles for Kathy about co2 prompting the progression of externally pipping I ran across a passage that explains the transformation between breathing stages that, I think would answer that question. If I can find it I will share it so you can read it. My son and his dog broke the screen to my laptop so I've been using the iPad for my internet stuff and it's not as easy to maneuver and find stuff, but I will see if I can.

No movement isn't a good sign, but I hate ruling out hope too soon.

About that CO2 prompting external pipping... doesn't make sense to me when I've put safe holes in a whole batch of Calls and they still externally pipped and zipped on their own...

 

[RubyNala97]

https://www.backyardchickens.com/t/...cator-friend-spirit-greeter/690#post_17607895
Hopefully that works.
I put an ad on CL for my 2 paint boys today.

Thanks! I'm happy for everyone that got them. I did a major update on my phone...maybe I should try the app again. I never know what's going on on byc!

I will look for that email now...about the paint boy and see if she is near you.

About that CO2 prompting external pipping... doesn't make sense to me when I've put safe holes in a whole batch of Calls and they still externally pipped and zipped on their own...

That is interesting. Did they pip then zip right away? Or was it a pip then time them zip?

 

[Lilmissesmom]

Sorry to hear you lost it. Good question. When I was searching for the articles for Kathy about co2 prompting the progression of externally pipping I ran across a passage that explains the transformation between breathing stages that, I think would answer that question. If I can find it I will share it so you can read it. My son and his dog broke the screen to my laptop so I've been using the iPad for my internet stuff and it's not as easy to maneuver and find stuff, but I will see if I can.

No movement isn't a good sign, but I hate ruling out hope too soon.

Sorry about the chick, i know how heartbreaking it is. Congrats on the chicks that did hatch.

 

[AmyLynn2374]

About that CO2 prompting external pipping... doesn't make sense to me when I've put safe holes in a whole batch of Calls and they still externally pipped and zipped on their own...

I didn't write it...lol I just read it in various articles. But my answer would be the Co2 is only the catalysts for the initial pip. Once you have an artificial pip they will at some point progress as though they would if they had pipped. Maybe once they've had the air and strengthened their lungs things progress naturally. When people ask me for advice in making the safety hole I explain what I've read and point out by that logic it may take them longer to progress on it's own, but I've done safety holes a couple times and they progressed on their own after a while

 

[jenniferlamar70]

So, we lost the chick

It stopped breathing and when I saw that, I opened it up a bit more hoping it just needed air. I chipped away more shell and outer membrane and saw vessels so I stopped. I know I probably should open the whole thing to see what went wrong but I just don't have the heart to right now.

I'm really trying to figure out what happened here. The first pip was 48 hours ago and the other 2 healthy chicks hatched over 36 hours ago. But then this latest one still had blood vessels so it obviously was much less developed, right? Why would it be so very far behind? I did open it enough to see that it's beak was nowhere in sight, so I'm thinking it was malpositioned. I'm not sure why it died as I didn't break the inner membrane and kept it moist...

There are still 2 eggs in the incubator. I saw one "breathing" yesterday (which now I am hearing may not mean it's in the air cell...if not what would it be breathing? Or why would it be moving in a breath-like rhythm?) but did not see movement on either today. We set eggs on a Tuesday at 2, it's now a Wednesday at 4.

Is there still hope? 

There is always still hope. Have they internally pipped yet? It looks like the shadow of a beak in the air cell when you candle. So sorry for you loss of the little chick. Its always hard.

It's pretty here but winter is coming, which means I wish I was in Atlanta!
During lockdown the air cell grows dramatically and forms around the chick. It's called "draw down". At that point you can see the breathing motion of the chick or sometimes it looks like a heartbeat motion (some people refer to it as "waves"). For me, if I see this on eggs that are late they usually don't hatch. That's just my experience. The problem with helping your egg (I read all your posts) is that there wasn't an internal pip, so there's not much you can do unless you plan on breaking the internal membrane and pulling the beak out. That's a risky move (I've tried it and was not successful) because you might rip a vein or not be able to find the beak as quickly as you need to. Next time, look for an internal pip. I can post pics if you like. You'll see a little triangle right under the shell and usually hear peeping. The egg also feels a lot lighter once it's internally pipped. Once you have an internal pip you can wait at least 24 hours before making a tiny hole (the size of a pencil tip) in the shell. And then wait another 24 hours to give the chick a chance to zip on its own. Sometimes after eggtopsy there are no real signs as to why certain chicks don't hatch. Some just don't make it but look totally normal.
I never see badges! Can you link the page, please?
Is this your first hatch? Best thing to do is keep trying! You learn so much from each hatch.

X2

I didn't write it...lol I just read it in various articles. But my answer would be the Co2 is only the catalysts for the initial pip. Once you have an artificial pip they will at some point progress as though they would if they had pipped. Maybe once they've had the air and strengthened their lungs things progress naturally. When people ask me for advice in making the safety hole I explain what I've read and point out by that logic it may take them longer to progress on it's own, but I've done safety holes a couple times and they progressed on their own after a while

My theory is that the pip hole we create is so small that it only buys them more time but doesn't give so much oxygen that they can't continue on naturally. It's just a theory though lol.

 

[saraem]

It's pretty here but winter is coming, which means I wish I was in Atlanta!

During lockdown the air cell grows dramatically and forms around the chick. It's called "draw down". At that point you can see the breathing motion of the chick or sometimes it looks like a heartbeat motion (some people refer to it as "waves"). For me, if I see this on eggs that are late they usually don't hatch. That's just my experience. The problem with helping your egg (I read all your posts) is that there wasn't an internal pip, so there's not much you can do unless you plan on breaking the internal membrane and pulling the beak out. That's a risky move (I've tried it and was not successful) because you might rip a vein or not be able to find the beak as quickly as you need to. Next time, look for an internal pip. I can post pics if you like. You'll see a little triangle right under the shell and usually hear peeping. The egg also feels a lot lighter once it's internally pipped. Once you have an internal pip you can wait at least 24 hours before making a tiny hole (the size of a pencil tip) in the shell. And then wait another 24 hours to give the chick a chance to zip on its own. Sometimes after eggtopsy there are no real signs as to why certain chicks don't hatch. Some just don't make it but look totally normal.

Is this your first hatch? Best thing to do is keep trying! You learn so much from each hatch.

Yes, this is our first hatch. I'm tempted to try again right away as we were really hoping to come away with 2 pullets, and with only 2 chicks our odds aren't good...but I also kind of need a break. That was stressful! Not to mention it's hard to even find hatching eggs this time of year.

I'm glad to hear that yours that are late with the "wave" motion usually don't hatch. Makes me feel like maybe I couldn't have saved the one that died anyway. I'm calling it on the other 2 at the end of today if I don't see an internal pip and will open them up.

Would 50% humidity during lockdown cause shrink-wrapping? That's the only thing that wasn't textbook with incubation...I know that on late Day 18 until early Day 20 humidity was only 50%. We got it up before anyone pipped.

 

[jenniferlamar70]

Yes, this is our first hatch. I'm tempted to try again right away as we were really hoping to come away with 2 pullets, and with only 2 chicks our odds aren't good...but I also kind of need a break. That was stressful! Not to mention it's hard to even find hatching eggs this time of year.

I'm glad to hear that yours that are late with the "wave" motion usually don't hatch. Makes me feel like maybe I couldn't have saved the one that died anyway. I'm calling it on the other 2 at the end of today if I don't see an internal pip and will open them up. 

Would 50% humidity during lockdown cause shrink-wrapping? That's the only thing that wasn't textbook with incubation...I know that on late Day 18 until early Day 20 humidity was only 50%. We got it up before anyone pipped.

You can purchase eggs on here or on ebay. Shipped eggs can be hard but the more locally you can find them better. I have had good hatches from RubyNala97 and those were shipped from new York to california.

 

[Blooie]

You can purchase eggs on here or on ebay. Shipped eggs can be hard but the more locally you can find them better. I have had good hatches from RubyNala97 and those were shipped from new York to california.

Likewise with eggs shipped from @RubyNala97 , from New York to northwestern Wyoming.

 

[MotherKocher]

It sounds like to me, high humidity the first 17 days. High humidity results in drowning at hatch time, but it also results in larger chicks that are unable to turn so you have higher instances of malpositioned. What was your humidity the first 17 days? I highly recommend a low humidity incubation, and monitoring air cells. I use 30% for standard eggs and make changes depending on the air cell. More often than not I can achieve this running dry until lockdown.
Good luck! It's awesome seeing the progression of growth.

Turns out the humidity has been 20% higher than what my incubator has been showing

I now have it set right but what do I do for the eggs that were affected by the high humidity? I put some in 12 days ago not knowing about the humidity. Should I dry it out in there?

 

[jenniferlamar70]

Turns out the humidity has been 20% higher than what my incubator has been showing I now have it set right but what do I do for the eggs that were affected by the high humidity? I put some in 12 days ago not knowing about the humidity. Should I dry it out in there?

Not much you can do except to fix the humidity. You don't want to dry it out. Hopefully now that it's adjusted it won't effect them to much.