hatchery Silkies gallery! :)
- Thread starter exop
- Start date
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Don't go around and say that hatchery silkies are what silkies should look like. Y'all are not looking at anything but their crests. Crests aside, hatchery birds still have a lot of faults. The lack of toe feathers, type, coloring, comb type, toe number, and many other things. Did anyone mention where those perfect silkies back in the 30's were from? American silkies are different compared to silkies oversees. If I'm not mistaken, in some countries a small crest is preferred. In America, the big crested silkies tend to win.
- Feb 8, 2011
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^^ Ditto
first place rooster SHOW STOCK!
^^ Ditto
first place rooster SHOW STOCK!
- Thread starter
- #28
"Should" look like is a matter of opinion.
That's up to you, and what you like.
But it's a historical fact the Silkie originally looked quite different from the modern American SQ Silkie. And that's not because of lack of breeding, they were maintained that way in China for hundreds and hundreds of years.
The original Silkie had a smaller crest, more of an upright posture, less leg feathering and beard... They had black skin, blackish flesh and comb, white feathering, five toes, and vivid sky blue earlobes.
Illustration showing Chinese Silkies in the mid 1700s
They were traded several hundred years ago to Japan where they were called "Ukokkei". Over time the Japanese version of the Silkie has started to look a little different from the original Chinese bird. Silkies made it to Europe, England and America mostly starting in the 1800s (a few were recorded in the 1700s) when sailors and world travellers brought them back from Asia. Once again, national tastes and the poultry fancy have slowly changed the appearance of the birds. The extra fluffy American silkie really took off over the last 20-30 years. Before that Silkies with smaller crests were the norm, even in the U.S. Old timers I have talked with have also said that not too long ago, Silkies with a much darker skin were quite common. Now people seem to be casual about some of the distinctive Silkie traits the breed has always had... focussing instead on new colors brought in by crossing with other breeds, and extra fluffy feathering on the foot and head. I have bought several Silkies from a show breeder that have almost no blue color to the earlobes. Seems to me the only way you would suddenly lose a trait the breed has been famous for for centuries, is by reckless crossing with other breeds that do not have the trait. In the 1800s, the ears were so bright that some texts erroneously stated that they glowed in the dark.
Meanwhile, over time British show Silkies have gotten rounder and blockier in shape... European Silkies have gotten pouffy crests but they seem differently shaped than the American version... no-one's Silkies have stayed exactly the same, but I think you could look at photos and say the American SQ Silkie looks like it is the farthest from its origins.
"pure" modern Chinese Silkies from the state Silkie preserve...
...more Chinese Silkies
Ukokkei from Japan...
Sure, hatchery Silkies may have their own issues, depending on the hatchery. Anyway, this thread is basically a celebration of hatchery Silkies and heritage style Silkies, for people to share pictures
But it's a historical fact the Silkie originally looked quite different from the modern American SQ Silkie. And that's not because of lack of breeding, they were maintained that way in China for hundreds and hundreds of years.
The original Silkie had a smaller crest, more of an upright posture, less leg feathering and beard... They had black skin, blackish flesh and comb, white feathering, five toes, and vivid sky blue earlobes.
They were traded several hundred years ago to Japan where they were called "Ukokkei". Over time the Japanese version of the Silkie has started to look a little different from the original Chinese bird. Silkies made it to Europe, England and America mostly starting in the 1800s (a few were recorded in the 1700s) when sailors and world travellers brought them back from Asia. Once again, national tastes and the poultry fancy have slowly changed the appearance of the birds. The extra fluffy American silkie really took off over the last 20-30 years. Before that Silkies with smaller crests were the norm, even in the U.S. Old timers I have talked with have also said that not too long ago, Silkies with a much darker skin were quite common. Now people seem to be casual about some of the distinctive Silkie traits the breed has always had... focussing instead on new colors brought in by crossing with other breeds, and extra fluffy feathering on the foot and head. I have bought several Silkies from a show breeder that have almost no blue color to the earlobes. Seems to me the only way you would suddenly lose a trait the breed has been famous for for centuries, is by reckless crossing with other breeds that do not have the trait. In the 1800s, the ears were so bright that some texts erroneously stated that they glowed in the dark.
Meanwhile, over time British show Silkies have gotten rounder and blockier in shape... European Silkies have gotten pouffy crests but they seem differently shaped than the American version... no-one's Silkies have stayed exactly the same, but I think you could look at photos and say the American SQ Silkie looks like it is the farthest from its origins.
Sure, hatchery Silkies may have their own issues, depending on the hatchery. Anyway, this thread is basically a celebration of hatchery Silkies and heritage style Silkies, for people to share pictures
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What silkies should look like in America is actually written in the standard of perfection. Technically silkies should look like that. That's what people strive to produce.
I just got a little upset when people were saying hatchery birds are what silkies should look like. I know the original silkie was much different. If you compared that to a hatchery silkie today, the hatchery bird still falls short. Still totally different even if they have the same crest size.
I wonder why the silkie standards here have changed so much then. How are people changing distinct silkie traits? They seem to be amplified now. A silkies distinct traits to me are the silkied feathering and blue ear lobes. Red earlobes isn't the only result of recklessly crossing breeds and not everyone does that. I don't know what breeder you went to but a lot of silkies have bright blue ear lobes. It's in the American standards too. I'm sure back then those silkies still produced birds with faults. Not every single original silkie was the same and perfect.
I didn't say that modern silkies are the same as the original silkies. Thats not what upset me. I said hatchery silkies aren't the same as the original ones after they said they were.
I just got a little upset when people were saying hatchery birds are what silkies should look like. I know the original silkie was much different. If you compared that to a hatchery silkie today, the hatchery bird still falls short. Still totally different even if they have the same crest size.
I wonder why the silkie standards here have changed so much then. How are people changing distinct silkie traits? They seem to be amplified now. A silkies distinct traits to me are the silkied feathering and blue ear lobes. Red earlobes isn't the only result of recklessly crossing breeds and not everyone does that. I don't know what breeder you went to but a lot of silkies have bright blue ear lobes. It's in the American standards too. I'm sure back then those silkies still produced birds with faults. Not every single original silkie was the same and perfect.
I didn't say that modern silkies are the same as the original silkies. Thats not what upset me. I said hatchery silkies aren't the same as the original ones after they said they were.
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- Thread starter
- #30
Quote:
"Should" is a matter of opinion, and of whether you want to win shows with a champion Silkie... the APA standard is not a book of law. It reflects people's opinions. For the Silkie, it reflects the opinion of the Silkie club over time for what they consider an aesthetically ideal Silkie. Also, being a written description it is subject to interpretation by the reader, and the illustrator. Once people have gotten used to a higher degree of fluffiness, what seemed like a "full" crest once upon a time may start to seem just average.
Anyway, no need for either of us to get upset. I would prefer for the APA to recognize a second category, "heritage style Silkie", so that people would have an incentive to preserve the original, historic Silkie type.
"Should" is a matter of opinion, and of whether you want to win shows with a champion Silkie... the APA standard is not a book of law. It reflects people's opinions. For the Silkie, it reflects the opinion of the Silkie club over time for what they consider an aesthetically ideal Silkie. Also, being a written description it is subject to interpretation by the reader, and the illustrator. Once people have gotten used to a higher degree of fluffiness, what seemed like a "full" crest once upon a time may start to seem just average.
Anyway, no need for either of us to get upset. I would prefer for the APA to recognize a second category, "heritage style Silkie", so that people would have an incentive to preserve the original, historic Silkie type.
I'm sure back then those silkies still produced birds with faults. Not every single original silkie was the same and perfect.
The Silkie is an ancient breed full of stable, laboriously selected, rare genetic traits - black skin, furry feathers, fifth toe, walnut/ mulberry comb and blue ears. Every Silkie, beautiful or not, would share at least these traits, if pure bred... The "faults" we are talking about here aren't just random imperfections, they are clear evidence of outcrosses to other breeds.
To my knowlege, pretty much no one has a "pure" Silkie - hatchery or show breeder. What we can all do though is enjoy what we have, and breed from our best birds (ie. birds which at least have the basic Silkie stuff happening: for example, friendly, broody, lays a creamy beige egg, five toes, darker skin if possible, bluer ear if possible, rose or walnut comb, soft furry feathers).
Best - exop
The Silkie is an ancient breed full of stable, laboriously selected, rare genetic traits - black skin, furry feathers, fifth toe, walnut/ mulberry comb and blue ears. Every Silkie, beautiful or not, would share at least these traits, if pure bred... The "faults" we are talking about here aren't just random imperfections, they are clear evidence of outcrosses to other breeds.
To my knowlege, pretty much no one has a "pure" Silkie - hatchery or show breeder. What we can all do though is enjoy what we have, and breed from our best birds (ie. birds which at least have the basic Silkie stuff happening: for example, friendly, broody, lays a creamy beige egg, five toes, darker skin if possible, bluer ear if possible, rose or walnut comb, soft furry feathers).
Best - exop
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