Hatching chicks advice, day 21...

[Chrifister]

So we got a rooster for our 6 hens over the winter with the goal of hatching out 6 more hens this spring. Waited forever for the forced-air incubator to come in. Finally got it and put 6 eggs from that morning plus 6 from the day before into the incubator. Incubation began around 7 PM on April 14th. Also picked up some small thermometer/hygrometers to put in but unfortunately they didn't fit. Had to go with the temperature on the incubator, followed instructions for humidity. Eggs are arranged in 3 x 4 pattern laying on their sides.

Candling
Day 8, all embryos moving, can see veins in all eggs.
Day 14, all large embryos moving but not 100% sure about one, was hard to see because the shell was dark.

Didn't candle at day 18 but probably should have. Figured it was best to leave them in there.

After 3 weeks, here we are. Day #'s look off because the next "day" isn't until 7 PM. So most of Monday is day 19 and day 20 starts at 7 PM.

Monday, May 4th - Day 19
-Sometime before lunch we noticed cracks in the eggs, pips I guess.
-We missed him hatching. He was out by 3:30 PM.
-Seen pips in most of the outside eggs. Seen 2 eggs that looked like they were unzipping.
-2 more hatch just before midnight.

Tuesday, May 5th - Day 20
-Another one hatched overnight. Still wet in the morning. Looks like it's taking about 2-3 hours for them to dry off. Can still see water in the bottom of the incubator.
-All eggs we can see have holes in them, some with large gashes in the shell and inner membrane and feathers sticking out. Figure many chicks are going to hatch.
-Can see beak poking through in 2 eggs. Later that night, one beak is poking out of the egg about 1/8" and is not moving. The other egg's beak is moving in and out.

Wednesday, May 6th - Day 21
-Another one hatched overnight, one of the two eggs that had the beak poking out.
-The one with the beak poking out looks the same, still not moving.
-Egg with large gash and feathers sticking out seems to have made the gash larger, or the other chicks running around did.
-Holes are bigger in many eggs. Can see feathers sticking out.
-The 5 hatched are completely dry and running around like crazy.

Now what? As of right now, we are still day 21 because day 22 doesn't start until 7 PM this evening, 6 hours from now. I am concerned about the egg with the beak that isn't moving, as well the eggs with the large gashes and feather sticking out that are not moving either. A couple of the holes look like the membrane is drying out yet the machine has water in the bottom and it's difficult to see because of the humidity condensed on the inside of it. We are planning to remove the hatched chicks this evening and put them in the brooder because that will be 50+ hours for the first chick that hatched. I was going to leave the rest of the eggs in the incubator and see what happens.

Anybody have any advice on what to do?

 

[LynnaePB]

Congratulations on the little ones you've hatched so far!

It sounds to me like there may be some little ones who could possibly be having trouble zipping (breaking the shell around the circumference of the egg and then pushing out). Sometimes chicks are positioned in a way where they can't turn to zip properly, I've also heard if the humidity has been on the high side during incubation sometimes the chicks get too big to properly turn in the egg even if they were correctly positioned.

External Pip (when they first make the little hole) to hatch can take up to 24 hours if they pipped into the air cell (the blunt end). It can take up to 48 hours to hatch if they externally pipped on the narrow end or not into the air cell.

Once they start zipping it usually takes less than a half hour for them to finish, sometimes they get stuck mid zip and need help if they are going to have a chance making it.

It sounds to me like you may have some who could possibly have tried to start a zip but couldn't turn to do it. In your situation I would quickly and carefully remove the already hatched and dry chicks to the brooder and see about possibly helping with zipping some of the ones who have started but haven't gotten anywhere.

Hatching chicks have to switch over from using the blood vessels along the inner membrane of the shell for oxygen to using their lungs. It can take a while for those blood vessels to completely absorb as well as the yolk so you have to be very careful in assisting and only break a little shell at a time making sure there is no bleeding. If there is bleeding quickly stop it by dabbing it with a clean cloth or paper towel and then put the egg back in the incubator and wait for awhile before trying again.

This is a great article on assisting and may be helpful. Usually once a chick starts a zip it is ready to come out and the assists for those typically are pretty easy and safe. If the chick has been stuck for a very long time sometimes they get very weak and need some extra tlc (save-a-chick or something similar that replenishes electrolytes in their water can really help give them a needed boost).

https://www.backyardchickens.com/articles/guide-to-assisted-hatching-for-all-poultry.72886/

The chick with the beak sticking out that is not moving sounds like it may have already passed. Be prepared for some of the others to have passed as well. In my experience once they absorb the yolk and blood vessels and they can't get out they start fading and getting weaker and eventually give up if not assisted in time.

It sounds to me like there was an issue, usually with losses right at the end it's due to humidity through days 1-18 (if the air cell is too small because of high humidity you can run into issues of chicks drowning or getting too big and not being able to zip well). I find the recommended humidity is often too high myself and I've seen a lot of less than super successful hatches result from new hatchers taking the incubator manufacturers advice about how high the humidity should be for the first 18 days. I myself have good luck with humidity around 25-35% the first 18 days, what works for some doesn't always work for others though. I find the most important thing in determining what humidity works best is watching the air cell. I adjust up or down based on how the air cell is growing. For me if the air cell is a little too small I run into more problems than if it is a little too big.

This diagram off google shows proper air cell growth for different days of incubation.

Good luck with your remaining eggs!

 

[Offshoreorca]

The one with the beak out, if not moving at all, is likely dead (usually you can see faint movement if it is resting). You can check this to make sure, but if you do be very careful and quick if you open your incubator as you risk threatening the others that haven't hatched yet. The one with the long gash (called "zipping") should be out already. From pipping to the start of the zip can take up to 24hrs, sometimes longer. Usually the zipping process is fairly speedy. You might need to assist (if you are looking to save the weaker chicks that need help), but make sure you read up on it carefully as there are a lot of mistakes that can be made.

https://www.backyardchickens.com/threads/intervention-helping-your-chicks-hatch.9316/

 

[Chrifister]

Thanks for the replies.

I have been reading quite a bit about intervening since yesterday to be ready just in case. The ones that have zipped have been like that since yesterday, just the gash has gotten bigger. By the way the other ones have been scrambling over them, it is quite possible they have had something to do with it. Most of the eggs have large holes and gashes with chick protruding.

We'll move the little ones out now and have a look at the 2 that are zipped. Then we'll candle the other ones to look for movement and cheeps.

I suspect the humidity may have been on the high side. knew it was too good to be true when we seen 12 for 12 moving in the eggs.

 

[Chrifister]

Update...

We took out the little ones and they are happily eating in the brooder. See attached image.

Our adult flock has an Aracauna black rooster, 2 black hens, 2 red hens, an amber hen, and a white leghorn hen. I don't remember the name of the black, red and amber ones, they were called layer chicks when we got them.

We hatched 2 black, 2 amber with black spots, and a white chick. I don't think think any survived from the red hens. I could be wrong, it's hard to tell amber from red at this age. The black spots are neat.

So the zipped eggs were both dead. I suspect they got stuck in their turn. One smelled bad and he was really big for his shell. The chick looked fine otherwise. It looked like he may have withdrew all the blood from the inner membrane, and the yolk was mostly absorbed. So it must have perished just before it broke out.

The other zipped egg chick looked the same.

There were 3 other eggs where the beak was sticking out slightly. No movement whatsoever out of them. The third one did bleed a little when we were removing some of the shell around the beak. Since that was different than the others, I stopped the bleeding with paper towel and put him back in the incubator. I think he's already gone though. I assume I should be seeing some movement in the beak or the rest of the chick? If he's dead and bleeding, I assume he passed just recently.

There was one egg where it looked like it tried to pip but a part of its body got in the way and was pushed out of the shell a bit. I assume this chick suffocated because the hole was blocked.

One other egg shows no sign of hatching at all, no pips, no cracks, nothing. I left it in the incubator and I'll candle it tonight. Here's hoping we get one more at least for a 50% rate.

I'm not a fan of this incubator. It only holds 12 eggs on their side. There is not enough room to add additional thermometers and hygrometers. Difficult to see water level. I'm going to order another one. I'll give this to someone else and tell them to only put 10 eggs in which leaves room for thermometers and hygrometers. I can't put another batch on because we have ducks coming in a few weeks. So lots of time to order a better incubator.

Any suggestions on a decent incubator from Amazon? I will be hatching chicks every summer, probably ducklings too. Also some geese at some point. It will see a decent amount of use.

 

[Chrifister]

So there are now only 2 eggs in the incubator: one that has no signs of hatching but we'll candle that tonight; and the one with the beak showing that bled when we were removing the shell, but there is still no movement.

Should the one with the beak showing be moving at all? Is it possible it only bled because it passed recently? Should we keep it in the incubator? I don't want to incubate a rotting egg for the next few days waiting to see if that other eggs hatches.

 

[Erin80]

I have the same incubator as you. It says it holds 12, it definitely doesn’t! We had 10 in there to start, and now we are down to 7 (two clears and a blood ring). I think 8 would be the best number for this incubator. I’ve already ordered another one and this group hasn’t even hatched yet.
Did you trust the temperature this incubator was showing? Unfortunately I did for the first 2 weeks.....then I laid a glass thermometer on top of the dividers and it read lower than what the incubator was saying. So I don’t know if this hatch will even hatch at all! Also, the amount of water it says to put in is crazy. When I filled the three middle areas, the humidity jumped up to 90%! So then I emptied it and ran a dry hatch the rest of the time. I’m also not a fan of the tinted plastic.
Tomorrow is day 18 and I’m not feeling good about this hatch. This incubator seems unreliable. I’ve heard excellent things about the Brinsea incubators.

 

[Chrifister]

I just finished writing a review for Amazon for this incubator.

We put 12 eggs in but the egg turner had trouble moving back and forth when the eggs were aligned a certain way. Just went with the temperature it was showing. We also thought the amount of water was a bit much because the temperature display filled with condensation and it's hard to make out now. That started when it said to fill 3 channels with water. When it said to fill all 5 channels we actually overflowed it because we couldn't see the water depth. Had water all over the counter.

I didn't take notice about the air sac. Not sure how I missed that in everything I read. We did candle the eggs and the embryos were moving. Thought all was good.

My little thermometer/hygrometer thingies are rectangle shape and bulky. They wouldn't really fit and may interfere with the egg tray when it moves so we didn't use them.

A family member wants me to incubate a dozen eggs for him so we'll try again starting this weekend. I'll definitely try to get that thermometer/hygrometer in there. We can't incubate any more for us right now because ducks and geese are coming early June and will take up the brooder. That's fine and will give me time to order a better incubator for the summer. According to reviews on here, and the fact we could be hatching out a number of chickens, ducks, and geese every summer, I'm looking at one of the Genesis Hova-bators.

Good luck with your hatch. Knowing what we know now, we should have intervened Tuesday morning and we may have saved 5-6 more chicks.

 

[LynnaePB]

Sorry to hear the little ones who were not fully zipped didn't make it. I would think you are probably right about the one who bled a little, no movement at all means it likely passed very recently.

The ones who did hatch are adorable! I breed and hatch paint silkies and their down looks a lot like your little spotted babies, they'll probably keep their black spots as they grow.

I've heard good things about hovabators and would say it's a pretty solid option.

I myself mostly use a nurture right 360 to incubate and hatch and really like it. Because of the way the turner works it's better to test the temperature and humidity with the turner removed before you add the eggs and just spot check occasionally (during which I unplug the turner cord until I remove the thermometer/hygrometer). I'm not sure how well duck eggs would fit in the turner however and goose eggs definitely wouldn't and would need to be hand turned.

I've also heard good things about the incuview and it was one I was considering purchasing before settling on the nurture right 360. I believe duck and goose eggs may work better in that incubator but can't say for sure since I've never actually used it.

 

[Chrifister]

We discarded the egg with the beak, it still wasn't moving.

We candled the last egg with no marks on it and it wasn't moving either. I made a hole in the air sac to have a look and it doesn't look like the embryo is filling the shell. I think this one passed days ago.

So in the end, we have 5 chicks, and learned a bunch of stuff. We ordered another incubator for later in the summer and will try again. In the meantime, I may have another batch going soon for a family member, so another chance to learn more.

Thanks everyone!