Hatching Period Conflict with Lockdown Date

[web18designer]

This is from the easter hatch a long:

View attachment 1485820

The one that would give you the most problems would be pheasant. Goose is somewhat of an issue too.

I suspect the issue is with different types of pheasants and Geese not all of them in general. If you look into say a golden pheasant for incubation time, you should find a more specific incubation time.

It is an interesting question and I have a couple of thoughts on it

First, turning at the end of incubation is not that big of a deal. The benefit of turning is long gone by then especially for long incubating species. There is a danger of hatchlings getting caught in the turners though so you could safely stop turning at the early day of the range.

Second, upping humidity is not super critical until they internally pip. You can tell if they have internally pipped by candling or by listening for chirps. Definately up the humidity if you see a pip!

Everyone should candle and monitor incubation! That is how we learn.

Specific incubating strategy by species and type can be found on the threads that match. I do know someone that hatches a lot of pheasant that can likely help with this! Lets see if he shows up @007Sean

Thanks a lot, that's the kind of answers I'm after!

A related question if maybe you know the answer. The general consensus is to stop the turning 3 days before the hatch date (so that the unhatched chicks can orient themselves in the right direction, etc).

For species with a higher hatching period (longer time requirement for the embryo to develop) - technically the period should be more than 3 days but most of the charts i have seen are of 3 days regardless of the incubation period.

do you maybe have info regarding this?

thanks a lot, really appreciate taking your time to answer

 

[ronott1]

Thanks a lot, that's the kind of answers I'm after!

A related question if maybe you know the answer. The general consensus is to stop the turning 3 days before the hatch date (so that the unhatched chicks can orient themselves in the right direction, etc).

For species with a higher hatching period (longer time requirement for the embryo to develop) - technically the period should be more than 3 days but most of the charts i have seen are of 3 days regardless of the incubation period.

do you maybe have info regarding this?

thanks a lot, really appreciate taking your time to answer

I hatch them upright and not on their side. They go into position that way on their own.

I do not think it is as much of an issue with hatching eggs. They are not humans and can move to hatch any time. The biger problem is if they get stuck on goo inside the egg. That can happen for a lot of reasons.

Short answer is that a healthy hatch-ling will move towards the air cell if it is up a bit naturally.

The best thing to do is to hatch some and get experience! It is not super hard but there is a learning curve to it

 

[007Sean]

This is from the easter hatch a long:

View attachment 1485820

The one that would give you the most problems would be pheasant. Goose is somewhat of an issue too.

I suspect the issue is with different types of pheasants and Geese not all of them in general. If you look into say a golden pheasant for incubation time, you should find a more specific incubation time.

It is an interesting question and I have a couple of thoughts on it

First, turning at the end of incubation is not that big of a deal. The benefit of turning is long gone by then especially for long incubating species. There is a danger of hatchlings getting caught in the turners though so you could safely stop turning at the early day of the range.

Second, upping humidity is not super critical until they internally pip. You can tell if they have internally pipped by candling or by listening for chirps. Definately up the humidity if you see a pip!

Everyone should candle and monitor incubation! That is how we learn.

Specific incubating strategy by species and type can be found on the threads that match. I do know someone that hatches a lot of pheasant that can likely help with this! Lets see if he shows up @007Sean

Not real sure what your looking for here!
Golden pheasants and Amherst will hatch in 21 to 22 days of incubation, almost all other pheasants will hatch at 24 to 26 days of incubation.

 

[ronott1]

Not real sure what your looking for here!
Golden pheasants and Amherst will hatch in 21 to 22 days of incubation, almost all other pheasants will hatch at 24 to 26 days of incubation.

Thanks Sean! That is the answer the OP was looking for. The incubation listed for Pheasants is general. Specific types are narrower.

I knew you would be helpful

 

[Kiki]

Thanks, that's what I'm after. Care to share more info (if you have any) regarding the reasoning behind your answer?

thank you

No specific reasoning.
Or actually I think I would turn the turner off a few days before the earliest date because then you wouldn't have to worry about chicks being smooshed by the turner if they happen to start hatching on the early side.

 

[Kiki]

Where did the op mentioned pheasants? I missed this.

 

[ronott1]

Where did the op mentioned pheasants? I missed this.

The question was a general question about any species with a wide range of incubation time. There was no specific species in the question.

It was a hypothetical species...kind of a thought question not a specific question. I brought it back to specific to show that you can find better information that way.

The answer is to look up what you want to hatch by species and type and you will get a tighter incubation time

 

[Pugsabi]

Well done and many thanks. Apparently you are the first one to really give my question a go (as opposed to the majority of others who simply "questioned my question instead" - and I'm saying this without any disrespect to anyone, I appreciate all the answers whatever they are)

Just a comment for your answer, if the lockdown is set for the largest date, it could result in a very serious problem if the hatch is early - i'm referring to the eggs being turned while the eggs are hatching and chicks being crushed by the egg turner (or falling in case of a cabinet incubator)...

I think this also would depend on your type of incubator as well. A tiny 7 egg incubator probably won't cause too much damage if you turn too long as compared to a incubating cabinet. However, it seems like according to some of the other responses turning during the last few days is not as important. So you might even be able to get away with going on lockdown at the earliest possible date.

 

[dotporter]

Hello,

I'm hatching some eggs and found online that they hatch within 23-28 days and I should STOP the incubation from turning(Lockdown Date) at between the 20-24 day.

The problem is, if I stop the eggs on day 24, its possible that the eggs might have already hatched (ie: because they can hatch from day 23).

I notice that this problem is for quiet a few species of birds....Obviously if one hatches the same species of birds, one would know more accurately when they will hatch and adjust the lockdown day accordingly. however, lets assuming that I'm hatching the specie for the first time.

Anyone can put some light/insight on whats the common trend to tackle this situation?

some ideas/cases would be:

- Stop the egg turning (lockdown date) on the smallest day, meaning on the 20th day (but if the eggs hatch on the 28day, that would be a full 8 days without egg turning)

- Stop the egg turning (lockdown date) on the largest day, meaning on the 24th day (but if the eggs hatch early on the 23day, they will hatch and the eggs would still be turning)


- Stop the egg turning mid way (on the 22) (if the eggs hatch early on the 23day then they can hatch on the 23rd too....or if they hatch on the largest day, on the 28 that would be 5 days without egg turning)


any insight?

thanks

Interesting theoretical. In my experience, the range of hatch dates is determined by the conditions of the incubator. ie. if the temperature is too cool, the eggs take longer to develop and hatch. If the temperatures are too high, you're likely to just get dead embryos, so cool temperature affects hatch date more than high temperatures.

Thus, if one is unable to touch or monitor the eggs, the solution would be to monitor the incubator conditions with calibrated tools to ensure perfect hatching conditions.

In your example, the birds hatch between 23 to 28 days. Thus, perfect conditions result in a lockdown date at day 20. As noted in the conditional lockdown dates that you listed, that is correct.

An un-calibrated thermometer could lead to a temperature difference of a full degree, meaning the hatch will be a couple of days late. Thus, if you were using sub par tools and were able to touch the eggs, you would candle and check the eggs (as others have mentioned), and would delay lockdown until day 22, with hatch expected on day 25.

The theoretical put forth gives the range of dates in which a chick could viably hatch given a range of temperatures. You put forth that in the given theoretical you can't touch the eggs or examine them directly.

Thus, the answer is to calibrate all equipment and ensure perfect hatch conditions so that the hatch date falls at the correct time at day 23, with the lockdown date at day 20.

I assume that the variance in possible days to hatch is directly related to each individual species tolerance for temperature variations during incubation.

 

[web18designer]

Interesting theoretical. In my experience, the range of hatch dates is determined by the conditions of the incubator. ie. if the temperature is too cool, the eggs take longer to develop and hatch. If the temperatures are too high, you're likely to just get dead embryos, so cool temperature affects hatch date more than high temperatures.

Thus, if one is unable to touch or monitor the eggs, the solution would be to monitor the incubator conditions with calibrated tools to ensure perfect hatching conditions.

In your example, the birds hatch between 23 to 28 days. Thus, perfect conditions result in a lockdown date at day 20. As noted in the conditional lockdown dates that you listed, that is correct.

An un-calibrated thermometer could lead to a temperature difference of a full degree, meaning the hatch will be a couple of days late. Thus, if you were using sub par tools and were able to touch the eggs, you would candle and check the eggs (as others have mentioned), and would delay lockdown until day 22, with hatch expected on day 25.

The theoretical put forth gives the range of dates in which a chick could viably hatch given a range of temperatures. You put forth that in the given theoretical you can't touch the eggs or examine them directly.

Thus, the answer is to calibrate all equipment and ensure perfect hatch conditions so that the hatch date falls at the correct time at day 23, with the lockdown date at day 20.

I assume that the variance in possible days to hatch is directly related to each individual species tolerance for temperature variations during incubation.

Thanks for the reply and my apologies for the delay. Just for the record if its of any use to anyone reading this and given that in the meantime I had more time to research/experiment on this:

When a specie's "Incubation Period" consist of a range (Example 17-19 days) rather than a single number (Example: 17days) - it does not means that this is done to compensate for "not ideal hatching conditions", otherwise the "Incubation Period" of ALL species would be ranges.

Its true that when the temperature fluctuate or is not set right the "Incubation Period" may be moved, however this is something different and applies to all species.

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But the conclusion everything was pointing to is that when an "Incubation Period" is a range of days, this is mainly due to different strains/origins/family of the same bird species.

As a real word example, I have access to a commercial hatchery and we hatched around 5k of Bobwhite Quail. Different strains/origins of the same bird were placed each in their own tray so we can keep note of which is which.

Some started hatching on day 23, others on day 24. The difference was clear on day 24, with certain stains have finished hatching while others are just getting started.

The test took in consideration other factors such as location of trays in the incubator (didn't had any meaningful difference). done in different seasons. Also the diet/environment of the parents, which was the same for all strains and didn't made a difference either.

So as a conclusion, some Bobwhite Quails hatch consistently on day 23, others on day 24 (and this when all conditions were the same, apart from the strain/origin/family of the specie)

Therefore, similarly to why different species or sub-species of birds have different "Incubation Periods". Different strains/origins/family of the same specie can have different "Incubation Periods" too and that's why the hatching charts of certain specie have a range of days when they hatch.

Its true that other factors can influence the "Incubation Periods" of all birds, including the location of the eggs in the incubator, how fresh the eggs are, etc. But when these parameters are the same, the variations seen to be due to genetic.

Thanks for all the input