Hatching Period Conflict with Lockdown Date

[web18designer]

It sounds to me like you don't have any species in mind, and are not hatching, just curious. Otherwise, you would post the name of the species you are inquiring about. For more detailed information, I would go to a more specific search for each species you are looking at.

Hatch dates can vary based on the strain of the bird involved, and the ability of the person to manage the incubator to achieve ideal temps. More goes into lock down decisions than just choosing a day. You must also be aware of air cell sizes, embryonic development, and manage lock down accordingly. In the case of chickens, the chick starts getting into hatching position on day 14. So, you could stop turning at that time. But, the decision to increase humidity is based on air cell size. Sometimes I increase humidity on day 17. Other times I must run completely dry until the first INTERNAL pip. IMO, it's not possible to achieve a good hatch without continuous monitoring of the clutch of eggs as well as the bator temp and humidity.

Thanks for sharing. Yes indeed, I am asking this for a project.

To be simplistic, most hatching charts will tell you about the lock-down date and the hatch date - and in most cases (talking from experienced working with a commercial hatchery) those dates are spot on. Theirs really no need to get into the details as you explained IF the incubator is good and the conditions were ideal throughout the incubation period. (I'm not saying that you shouldn't, but for the inexperienced occasional hatcher one could just tell him to "follow the dates on the charts")

The problem I am raising is when the hatch dates and lock down dates conflict. Its true that one could test a hatch to see the REAL hatch dates for the strain and incubator being used - and then the following hatches would probably follow the same dates.

BUT the question is, what should one answer if a newbie asks: "whats the lockdown date and hatching date of BIRD-ABC?"

Note: When BIRD-ABC lockdown date is as per below and the newbie cannot be told anything complicated such as checking air pockets, etc.

Hatch in: 23-28 days
Lockdown in: 20-24 day



Thanks a lot for the insight, I know the answer is not easy (if theirs any) - i kind of am trying to find the most ideal solution without entering into too details.

 

[web18designer]

Just a side note:

I wasn't paying attention to the incubator once.
The eggs starting externally pipping a few days before I expected so I hadn't even been looking for the internal pip.

The egg turner was still on up until I noticed the external pip.
I turned it off that second and the eggs hatched fine a few hours later.

Thanks for the message. Yes, something similar happened to me once too. ie: forgetting to move a batch of eggs to the hatcher/stoping the egg turning and then suddenly i noticed that it was 'raining' chicks! (because the incubator was a cabinet style one) - so basically they hatched while the turner was still switched on (not an ideal scenario obviously!)...

 

[Kiki]

Note: When BIRD-ABC lockdown date is as per below and the newbie cannot be told anything complicated such as checking air pockets, etc.

Hatch in: 23-28 days
Lockdown in: 20-24 day



Thanks a lot for the insight, I know the answer is not easy (if theirs any) - i kind of am trying to find the most ideal solution without entering into too details.

There shouldn't be this big of a range for any type of poultry eggs.

 

[Kiki]

Give us a list of type of eggs and we will make you a chart.

 

[web18designer]

There shouldn't be this big of a range for any type of poultry eggs.

I'm talking about birds in general. poultry do not have the problem because their hatching periods are small and do not conflict. Some Waterfowls and parrots do have the problem - among others.

Actually I'm not expecting a straight answer, also I'm not expecting someone to tell me that the specie of abc should be incubated for x amount of days and the lockdown should be on x day - this would be wrong because the hatching periods/lockdown of certain species are what they are - and the plan fact is that they conflict.

My question is very simple, if the periods conflict, how would one go about it? (taking in consideration that physically checking the eggs and altering the lock-down dates is not possible)


As an example, if i have the below:

Whatever Specie
Hatch in: 23-28 days
Lockdown in: 20-24 day

- Who and why is of the opinion of setting the earliest "lockdown date"? (20) - (the problem with this is that if the eggs hatch on the largest hatch date: 28, it would translate to 8 days without turning.)

- Who and why is of the opinion of setting the largest "lockdown date"? (24) - (the problem with this is that if the eggs hatch on the smallest hatch date: 23, it would translate the hatch starting while the eggs are still on the turner.)

- Who and why is of the opinion of setting the "lockdown date" in the middle? (22 - which is the number between 20 and 24) - (this would probably be the safest, if the hatch is on the smallest day: 23, then the lockdown date would be just 1 day, and if the hatch day is the largest: 28, it would be 6 days without egg turning.)

- Who and why is of the opinion of setting the "lockdown date" to somethign else?


Thanks for any input! really appreciate it.

 

[Pugsabi]

Of the three choices I would choose the largest lockdown date (24). While it's not ideal, chicks can still hatch while the turner is on and it gives them that much longer to continue to be turned if their hatch date happens to be in the later half of the expected hatch date.

Something more then hatch dates would also be what the temperature the eggs were at before you put them in the incubator, this can also cause the hatch date to be off. For example, if you were trying to hatch on a tropical island, I would go for the earliest lockdown date. A colder climate would have me going for the longest date.

This is a pretty interesting thought experiment.

 

[lazy gardener]

Thanks for sharing. Yes indeed, I am asking this for a project.

To be simplistic, most hatching charts will tell you about the lock-down date and the hatch date - and in most cases (talking from experienced working with a commercial hatchery) those dates are spot on. Theirs really no need to get into the details as you explained IF the incubator is good and the conditions were ideal throughout the incubation period. (I'm not saying that you shouldn't, but for the inexperienced occasional hatcher one could just tell him to "follow the dates on the charts")

The problem I am raising is when the hatch dates and lock down dates conflict. Its true that one could test a hatch to see the REAL hatch dates for the strain and incubator being used - and then the following hatches would probably follow the same dates.

BUT the question is, what should one answer if a newbie asks: "whats the lockdown date and hatching date of BIRD-ABC?"

Note: When BIRD-ABC lockdown date is as per below and the newbie cannot be told anything complicated such as checking air pockets, etc.

Hatch in: 23-28 days
Lockdown in: 20-24 day



Thanks a lot for the insight, I know the answer is not easy (if theirs any) - i kind of am trying to find the most ideal solution without entering into too details.

I respectfully disagree with you regarding the newbie not being told to check air cells. There is plenty of information regarding air cell management, and if one is not willing to learn such details, IMO, they have no business using an incubator. This may sound harsh. But, if one is taking the responsibility for bringing new life into the world, they need to take it seriously, and learn everything they can to ensure that they provide the best environment for a healthy outcome.

I'm talking about birds in general. poultry do not have the problem because their hatching periods are small and do not conflict. Some Waterfowls and parrots do have the problem - among others.

Actually I'm not expecting a straight answer, also I'm not expecting someone to tell me that the specie of abc should be incubated for x amount of days and the lockdown should be on x day - this would be wrong because the hatching periods/lockdown of certain species are what they are - and the plan fact is that they conflict.

My question is very simple, if the periods conflict, how would one go about it? (taking in consideration that physically checking the eggs and altering the lock-down dates is not possible)


As an example, if i have the below:

Whatever Specie
Hatch in: 23-28 days
Lockdown in: 20-24 day

- Who and why is of the opinion of setting the earliest "lockdown date"? (20) - (the problem with this is that if the eggs hatch on the largest hatch date: 28, it would translate to 8 days without turning.)

- Who and why is of the opinion of setting the largest "lockdown date"? (24) - (the problem with this is that if the eggs hatch on the smallest hatch date: 23, it would translate the hatch starting while the eggs are still on the turner.)

- Who and why is of the opinion of setting the "lockdown date" in the middle? (22 - which is the number between 20 and 24) - (this would probably be the safest, if the hatch is on the smallest day: 23, then the lockdown date would be just 1 day, and if the hatch day is the largest: 28, it would be 6 days without egg turning.)

- Who and why is of the opinion of setting the "lockdown date" to somethign else?


Thanks for any input! really appreciate it.

If the normal hatch date for a given species is a 5 day window, I would MONITOR THE EMBRYONIC DEVELOPMENT AND AIR CELL SIZE by candling (assuming that the egg is not too dark to candle) and choose lock down based on the development, air cell size, and evidence of draw down. Knowing that the chick starts to get into hatching position as early as a week before hatch (using chickens as an example) I would not be overly worried about turning the egg during the last week. So, IMO people put way too much emphasis on choosing a specific lock down date. They SHOULD be capable of monitoring the egg in question, and choose a lock down date based on the egg development, and known data pertinent to expected incubation period for the species. Given that 5 day hatch window, I would be comfortable going into lock down as late as day # 22. Or even waiting until evidence of first internal pip.

 

[Kiki]

I'm talking about birds in general. poultry do not have the problem because their hatching periods are small and do not conflict. Some Waterfowls and parrots do have the problem - among others.

Actually I'm not expecting a straight answer, also I'm not expecting someone to tell me that the specie of abc should be incubated for x amount of days and the lockdown should be on x day - this would be wrong because the hatching periods/lockdown of certain species are what they are - and the plan fact is that they conflict.

My question is very simple, if the periods conflict, how would one go about it? (taking in consideration that physically checking the eggs and altering the lock-down dates is not possible)


As an example, if i have the below:

Whatever Specie
Hatch in: 23-28 days
Lockdown in: 20-24 day

- Who and why is of the opinion of setting the earliest "lockdown date"? (20) - (the problem with this is that if the eggs hatch on the largest hatch date: 28, it would translate to 8 days without turning.)

- Who and why is of the opinion of setting the largest "lockdown date"? (24) - (the problem with this is that if the eggs hatch on the smallest hatch date: 23, it would translate the hatch starting while the eggs are still on the turner.)

- Who and why is of the opinion of setting the "lockdown date" in the middle? (22 - which is the number between 20 and 24) - (this would probably be the safest, if the hatch is on the smallest day: 23, then the lockdown date would be just 1 day, and if the hatch day is the largest: 28, it would be 6 days without egg turning.)

- Who and why is of the opinion of setting the "lockdown date" to somethign else?


Thanks for any input! really appreciate it.

I'm lost.
You say your question is very simple...to you it may be.
I have no clue what you are asking.

 

[Kiki]

Of the three choices I would choose the largest lockdown date (24). While it's not ideal, chicks can still hatch while the turner is on and it gives them that much longer to continue to be turned if their hatch date happens to be in the later half of the expected hatch date.

Something more then hatch dates would also be what the temperature the eggs were at before you put them in the incubator, this can also cause the hatch date to be off. For example, if you were trying to hatch on a tropical island, I would go for the earliest lockdown date. A colder climate would have me going for the longest date.

This is a pretty interesting thought experiment.

Can you put this in a way I will understand? (what OP is taking for)

 

[Pugsabi]

Can you put this in a way I will understand? (what OP is taking for)

I took the question as a thought experiment. If they actually want a successful hatch in real life, there is plenty of advice including diagrams on how to candle, check air sacks etc.

So the question is, if you have some eggs that you think will hatch between 23-28 days, when do you go on lockdown? Do you go by the earliest the eggs could hatch? The latest, etc? Pretend you couldn't physically check for pips, air sacks etc.
Op said it was for a project, so I pretended I was hatching these eggs remotely, using an AI, trying to hatch the first flock on Mars.