Hatching Twinsies

[Muddyacreshomestead]

^^^and either way, I have to disinfect the incubator when we are done.

 

[Kat C]

I’ve had plenty of normal/seemingly healthy eggs not hatch or hatch with issues that require culling. I just don’t see the difference. All hatching has risk involved, and yes, there is certainly the allure of the novelty of twin chickens.

I don’t see the issue here. If they don’t make it, then it’s no different than when a single yolk egg doesn’t hatch. If they do, then it was a fun experiment that ended with two new birds.

Well to increase hatchability I don't set eggs older than 7 days. To increase hatchability I store eggs by temperature guidelines. To increase hatchability I don't set dirty eggs. Yes some eggs still don't hatch and some that do still need culling that is true. But I do all I can to minimize that. So I would never set a double yolk egg since the fact that they are double yolk reduces their hatchability. Further the video posted shows an assisted birth of double yolk chicks. Any chicks that need assistance out of the shell are not fully healthy chicks. I am sure that being a double yolk chick is not good for the chicks and does not give them the best start in life. I care enough about my chickens that I want to hatch the healthiest, strongest chicks I can. '

I am not aware of any bird that normally reproduces by double yolk eggs. Birds have additional offspring by multiple eggs, not multiple chicks in an egg. It seems good to do things the way nature does them IMHO.

Double yolk eggs are no more twins than separate eggs as it is just matter of two yolks getting shelled together.
https://extension.psu.edu/programs/4-h/projects/poultry/embryology/teacher-resources/faqs
"What is a double-yolked egg?

It is an egg which has two yolks in it. Both yolks were ovulated (released) at or about the same time and enclosed in the same shell. Many eggs with double yolks occur when young adult female chickens first start producing eggs. Their egg-forming organs are not adjusted or not yet synchronized, so two yolks are released together. Shortly after egg production starts, the chickens' bodies adjust, and for the most part, they then lay eggs with only one yolk. But, there are some chickens which inherit the characteristic to lay double-yolked eggs and usually continue to do so throughout their life."

 

[Laodicia]

Well to increase hatchability I don't set eggs older than 7 days. To increase hatchability I store eggs by temperature guidelines. To increase hatchability I don't set dirty eggs. Yes some eggs still don't hatch and some that do still need culling that is true. But I do all I can to minimize that. So I would never set a double yolk egg since the fact that they are double yolk reduces their hatchability. Further the video posted shows an assisted birth of double yolk chicks. Any chicks that need assistance out of the shell are not fully healthy chicks. I am sure that being a double yolk chick is not good for the chicks and does not give them the best start in life. I care enough about my chickens that I want to hatch the healthiest, strongest chicks I can. '

I am not aware of any bird that normally reproduces by double yolk eggs. Birds have additional offspring by multiple eggs, not multiple chicks in an egg. It seems good to do things the way nature does them IMHO.

Double yolk eggs are no more twins than separate eggs as it is just matter of two yolks getting shelled together.
https://extension.psu.edu/programs/4-h/projects/poultry/embryology/teacher-resources/faqs
"What is a double-yolked egg?

It is an egg which has two yolks in it. Both yolks were ovulated (released) at or about the same time and enclosed in the same shell. Many eggs with double yolks occur when young adult female chickens first start producing eggs. Their egg-forming organs are not adjusted or not yet synchronized, so two yolks are released together. Shortly after egg production starts, the chickens' bodies adjust, and for the most part, they then lay eggs with only one yolk. But, there are some chickens which inherit the characteristic to lay double-yolked eggs and usually continue to do so throughout their life."

We understand and appreciate your point of view. The reason why I decided to follow this thread was so I could see what happened, since there is someone who is willing to set a double yolk, something I have never done. I have considered doing it, wanting to know for myself what would happen, and I have access to fertile double yolks. Having 1 person set a double yolk so we can see what happens is a far better way of doing things then for all of us curious folk to go and try to do it ourselves. If it turns out well, that doesn't mean we're all going to go putting double yolked eggs in our incubator. I know I won't. It means we will have seen something rare and cool. If it doesn't turn out, then the fact that it is very hard to do, if not next to impossible will be reinforced.

 

[Muddyacreshomestead]

I disagree that any chick needing assistance isn’t healthy; I have assisted plenty of chickens and geese in my time hatching and the majority of them are perfectly normal and grow into perfectly normal animals. There are plenty of variables for chicks that need assisting, not just health issues.

And I’m not being argumentative, but if you’re against this, why follow the thread?

I’ve already set the eggs, it would be just as cruel now to toss a developing embryo as it would be to let it go and see what happens.

I appreciate your input, but this train is already in motion.

 

[Kat C]

We understand and appreciate your point of view. The reason why I decided to follow this thread was so I could see what happened, since there is someone who is willing to set a double yolk, something I have never done. I have considered doing it, wanting to know for myself what would happen, and I have access to fertile double yolks. Having 1 person set a double yolk so we can see what happens is a far better way of doing things then for all of us curious folk to go and try to do it ourselves. If it turns out well, that doesn't mean we're all going to go putting double yolked eggs in our incubator. I know I won't. It means we will have seen something rare and cool. If it doesn't turn out, then the fact that it is very hard to do, if not next to impossible will be reinforced.

You don't need this one person who started the thread to find out what will happen. It may or may not hatch but the likelihood of hatching is less. Unless the egg volume is double the size of a normal egg for that hen, the chicks will have less nutrition (the white and the yolk both are food for the growing chick and if there is room for less of either the chick doesn't have as much nutrition to grow). Unless the surface area is double that of a normal egg for that hen the area for oxygen to go in to the chicks will be reduced. The pores in the egg shell allow O2 in and CO2 out. How many pores would depend on the surface area of the shell. So in effect it is as experiment on living beings, lets see if we can give an embryo less that ideal or even normal conditions and they still make it.

Try think of it this way, once a chick was born would you deprive it of food to see if it could survive on less. Curiosity in this case may kill the chicks, or give them a poor start in life. I'm sorry but I really don't see the point. And you don't learn anything from one person doing it. Research shows lower hatch and lower body weight of chicks that are born. Why isn't that enough to make anyone decide to not try set a double yolk egg?
http://www.nrcresearchpress.com/doi/abs/10.4141/A99-090#.WpVxf-jwZPY

"Abnormally large eggs should also be avoided. These often contain more than one yolk and though double yolk egg hatches are possible, very few are successful. " https://www.backyardchickens.com/articles/egg-failure-to-hatch-diagnosing-incubation-problems.67011/

 

[Kat C]

I disagree that any chick needing assistance isn’t healthy; I have assisted plenty of chickens and geese in my time hatching and the majority of them are perfectly normal and grow into perfectly normal animals. There are plenty of variables for chicks that need assisting, not just health issues.

And I’m not being argumentative, but if you’re against this, why follow the thread?

I’ve already set the eggs, it would be just as cruel now to toss a developing embryo as it would be to let it go and see what happens.

I appreciate your input, but this train is already in motion.

I have assisted chicks that made it and others that didn't. I would say that the number that made it is very small compared to the number who didn't. Probably relates to whether they really needed assistance or were just slow in hatching.
I realize you are committed, I am writing for anyone else reading the thread to not try this. I hope it works well for you but I hope others don't try so they can avoid the possible cruelty of eggs dying in the shell.

 

[Deryk]

Good luck with the experiment. I find the comments in this thread interesting.

First off, it's an egg...
There are only a few outcomes that can happen:

1. It can die in a frying pan or over easy or maybe a nice cake
2. You can color it for Easter and hide it in your yard
3. It can die in the shell during incubation
4. It can be used for balut as mentioned in another thread not to far down this forum
5. Something can hatch, single or twins...
6. Roosters being culled after hatch

I really don't see how any of these options is worse than another. We all have an opinion on what is humane and what isn't. I personally don't assist with hatching, either they make it or they don't, but that is my choice with my flock. Others drop bricks on cockerels before they eat any food, that is their choice.

Again, good luck with your experiment.

Kat, what part of Bama are you in, and what is that pretty rooster in your avatar?

 

[ChickenCanoe]

I have to side with @Kat C on this one.
My eggs are too dark to see yolks when candling and luckily I haven't set any doubles.
Probably mostly because I rarely set pullet eggs and I never set extra large or jumbo pullet eggs which are likely to be doubles.
There are several reasons egg layers don't produce viable double yolk eggs that produce offspring - whether they be avian, reptilian, amphibian or even egg laying fish.
They don't hatch in nature - for good reason - the genetics leading to production of multiple yolks aren't passed on to future generations because they don't survive.
Nature protects vigorous animals with viable genetics. By culling any that shouldn't survive by natural selection, it ensures the success of future generations.
Mammals and other live bearers have abdomens that can expand to accommodate multiple embryos. The embryos obtain nutrients and oxygen directly from their mother across the placenta and do not rely on stored yolk.
When an egg is laid, it contains all the nutrition it will ever have.
It has all the space it will ever have.
There is a great deal of nutrition in the yolk. The albumen is around 50% of the contents of an egg, it consists of some carbohydrates but more importantly, about 10% of the protein and 90% of the water a developing embryo needs.
That means that in a double yolk egg, two embryos must share that water and protein. It isn't enough water for two. They must also share the oxygen which transpires across the shell membrane.
By the time they reach maturity - if they make it that far - both chicks won't be able to move into hatching position because there isn't enough space. In the unlikely event both get that far, one will likely suffocate because it can't get its beak into the air cell. As an embryo reaches the 21st day, it occupies virtually the entire space in the egg. I can't imagine 2 chicks crammed in there.
Think of it as a woman wearing a girdle throughout pregnancy.

Don't mean to rain on your parade but...
We have no knowledge of Siamese twin chicks ever being hatched. The development of twin chicks from a single-yolked egg.
...

That's because a yolk only has one blastodisc (containing the hen's genetic material) which, if fertilized, becomes a blastoderm in the 24 hours it spends in the hen's oviduct after the follicle splits. This releases the yolk into the infundibulum coming in contact with its sperm storage site.
While polyspermy (multiple sperm entering the ovum) is common in birds, it doesn't result in twinning due to there being a single germinal disc. In fact, excessive sperm penetration will become pathological resulting in early embryonic death. To protect the embryo, the hen's subepithelial glands in the distal infundibulum secrete an albumin type material around the ovum to prevent excessive penetration.

Indeed, but we don’t learn new things unless we try them.

But it isn't a new thing. It has been tried countless times. And 2 chicks successfully hatching from a single egg happens about 1% of those times.
If you search this forum, you'll find dozens of attempts. It seems like I see five or so such attempts a year.

I’ve had plenty of normal/seemingly healthy eggs not hatch or hatch with issues that require culling. I just don’t see the difference. All hatching has risk involved, and yes, there is certainly the allure of the novelty of twin chickens.

I don’t see the issue here. If they don’t make it, then it’s no different than when a single yolk egg doesn’t hatch. If they do, then it was a fun experiment that ended with two new birds.

There are perhaps 100 different reasons causing hatchability problems or having health and development issues in the chick.
The difference is that by setting a double yolk egg, one is guaranteeing failure.

... there are some chickens which inherit the characteristic to lay double-yolked eggs and usually continue to do so throughout their life."

And since they would never hatch in nature, those genes wouldn't be passed on.

 

[Kat C]

Kat, what part of Bama are you in, and what is that pretty rooster in your avatar?

Hi Deryk, I am in Clay County Alabama. Formerly in Chambers County. We are up near the Talledega forest and loving it!
The rooster was called Henny because he looked like a hen for a long time. He was 1/2 Blue Hamburg, 1/4 White Rock, 1/4 Americana. Unfortunately one rainy day a neighbors dog massacred a bunch of our chickens and he was one of them. We then invested in an electric netting fence and now basically only have to worry about predators from the sky.

I really wasn't intending to make this sound like a humane issue. I just failed to see why one would do anything other than set eggs that have the greatest likelihood of hatching healthy chicks. After the novelty of their birth they are just siblings, not twins. So it is hard for me to see the point. I suppose I got a bit carried away. So I apologize to Muddyacres if I sounded like I was judging.

 

[Kat C]

I have to side with @Kat C on this one.
My eggs are too dark to see yolks when candling and luckily I haven't set any doubles.
Probably mostly because I rarely set pullet eggs and I never set extra large pullet eggs.
.

Thanks for your comments. You raise Pendesencas? How fun. We got a couple of Welsummers last year and love the eggs! But the candling will sure be next to impossible. Can you at least see the air space on the eggs when they are developing? Do you ever sell any eggs for setting?
We also don't set eggs from first year hens as we want the eggs to reach full size before setting. We have moved and have a smaller chicken yard and smaller flock but we plan to hatch a few this year and have 4 breed pens set up. While we won't breed the Welsummer hens this year we are breeding the Welsummer roo with a very dark green egg layer. Should be interesting Since we got chickens over 20 years ago we have hatched about 1300 chicks, learning lots and lots along the way.