Hay use...

[Duckfarmer1]

We recently had to deal with lice. When I wrote about the clean up etc, on our sister site ...BYH..I wrote that I put down some DE after spraying with permTurin...and then put a thin layer of hay on 5he ground floor...to make raking easier next time..then a ton of wood chips..then a tons of hay in nest boxes. Oh, I also put a ton of DE in nest boxes and saw dust before hay in there.

i was ...ummm..told, nicely...not to do that. Never ever use hay in nest boxes. They explained the straw situ, so I got that up, being hollow..but, that’s why I love it..it comes up like carpet on my barn.... anyways...I have not heard people on here say not to use hay in nest boxes, and, I’ve done quite a lot of reading.

they also suggested I paint the boxes with kerosene...and some of the coop posts too. They said if they chickens get scary legmites...dip them in kerosene.....this seems,....dangerous. They said it might not be organic but it has worked the best for hundreds of years.?????

 

[Lady of McCamley]

For scaly leg mite, I personally would not use kerosene though many old timers do so. If you need to treat an infestation of scaly leg mites simply coat legs with a grease, like Crisco, or spray with Pam cooking spray. That will cure them after a few applications. It literally suffocates the mite. If you have a heavy infestation, you could apply Ivermectin cattle pour on 5%, about 5 drops (with an eyedropper at the base of the neck), to get rid of them. (It also works for Northern Fowl Mites). But I prefer to use the simplest method first at signs of actual scaly leg mites.

Body Lice and Northern Fowl Mite are not that hard to get rid of because they live on the bird and cannot survive long off the bird. Spraying or dusting with permethrin (2 doses 7 to 10 days apart) will take care of it especially if you clean up the bedding to remove those that may linger in it.

Red Poultry Mites are much harder as they live in the premises and bedding coming out at night to feed. They will tuck into the tiniest of crevice and can live long periods without feeding. For that I recommend a thorough spraying with Permethrin spray (like Gordon's) or going to one of the heavy duty sprays specifically for Red Mites. Some have even burned the coop down to get rid of bothersome infestations.

I personally do not use DE. I have read very little evidence that it actually works and have personal experience that it does nothing. Little beasties simply climb through it. It is also bad for chicken (and human) lungs, which are very sensitive to dust, with literature that acknowledges that. (There is even a disease named after over inhalation of the small parts of silica).

As to straw/hay. It is up to you. I do think the hollow tube in the straw offers opportunity for mites to collect, but as stated the real risk would be the Red Poultry Mite which lives in the bedding and structure.

I personally don't use straw/hay in bulk anymore as it always molded in my wet Oregon weather, plus it was terrible to mix into my clay soil. I do much better with pine shavings. But that's my climate. However, I do like to lay a thin top layer of soft hay over pine shavings in my broody boxes as it stays put much better preventing unnecessary rolling of hatching eggs.

My thoughts and experience.
LofMc

 

[harmonyp]

If you like to use hay, try grass hay.

 

[aart]

@Lady of McCamley has once again given a great info.

You do know @Duckfarmer1 that hay is feed(grasses grown for feeding ruminants)
and straw is bedding(left over plant stalks after grain is harvested).

Hay can mold, might depend on climate used in, harvesting and/or storage conditions.
Straw can provide habitat for bugs, either bugs that are already in residence in your coops and barns and/or again from storage(open storage where rodents and wild birds frequent).
Both can be used if proper procurement and management is practiced.
Don't react to all the adominations, learn the facts and make your own decisions
I use both, but only a bale of each a year...so easier than larger quantities.

 

[jolenesdad]

I don’t use hay (grass) anymore in my boxes because of impactions. I had a hen that would lay an occasional soft shell and others would eat it. If they did, they’d get an impaction. I almost lost them both.

 

[Ridgerunner]

Are you sure it was lice and not mites? The treatment can vary depending on what it actually is/was. It can be easy to confuse mites and lice. Lady Mc discusses that. If it is lice or fowl mites it's one thing. If it is roost mite it's another. Gape mites or scaly leg mites require different treatments.

If you use DE I suggest you look up the handling instructions for people in the food industry are supposed to follow. It involves a respirator. You are not in the food handling industry and can do as you wish, but I personally don't use the stuff.

No matter what bedding you use in the nest or coop floor somebody can come up with an excuse to not use it. No matter what bedding you use someone else is successfully using it. Some may be better in certain circumstances than others, we all have different conditions, but to me a blanket statement to never use something that others are successfully using leaves a bit to be desired.

There are a lot of traditional treatments for certain pests or conditions. Many of these come from a time that people had to use what they had available. Even if they had the money to buy things, which many did not, there was nothing to buy. Many people had kerosene because that was what they burned in their lamps for light. Many had lard from hogs they had butchered. These can smother tiny creatures. I grew up on a subsistence farm, one I frequently heard about was using used motor oil. These things worked. They killed the critters and did not cause permanent harm to the chicken. In my opinion there are better things to use on the market today, they are available and most people have enough money to buy them.

 

[Duckfarmer1]

Ok...now that you all have brought up these questions..I believe they are lice, based on all the lice posts. The chickens are missing many feathers. I posted many pictures on BYH and and it was suggested that they had lice. I saw tiny critters on the chickens. They were mighty fast. I really don’t remember if they were red or black..it was, more than a week ago..we had to put off treatment due to our goats kidding and such. So, yes, I do know th3 difference between straw and hay very well...which is why I wanted to use straw as a base. When you rake up straw that is a base under hay bedding..it comes up like carpet under my goats, so I figured it would do the same in the coop for our next round of heavy coop clean up. And, yes, I realize that straw is an empty shaft...but, it did not occur to me that the lice would be hiding up there...since, once we do the second treatment..I thought they would be gone. This is me being nieve again. I think things are just as they should be. So, I also have a pretty we6 climate like a Oregon, and clay soil...so, I will consider that. I do so the point, that someone will always find fault with a way of doing something, so, thank you for reminding of that...but, thank you, also....for, clueing me in on the fact that these dumb buggers will not be gone after the ten days, perhaps, as I think..... Anyways..back to the mites. How would I know the difference now? Ive treated my girls...so, hopefully the live bugs are dead. I n3ver did see scaley leg mites, they were just giving me advice on using kerosene...but I don’t ever think I would do that.

 

[Shadrach]

The advice not to use hay is good advice imo especially for bedding.
The advice to dip in kerosene isn't good advice even though as mentioned above it does kill the mites.
If you prefer to dip rather than coat in Vaseline then rubbing alcohol works well and because it eveporates there is very little residue left on the leg to act as an irritant which kerosene does. You need to keep the chickens legs submerged in the rubbing alcohol for 15 seconds minimum.

 

[oldhenlikesdogs]

I use hay for bedding. I've never had problems using it. We don't use it in warmer weather, although I have used it to bed nests year round without problems.

Tiny bugs sound like miltes. Generally treating your birds and any wood cracks with a pyrethrim, or permatherin based poultry dust or spray is best. I wouldn't use DE either. We do use barn lime to dry places out and on our poop board. Treat weekly for 3-4 weeks. Wild birds will bring in more so generally mites is a maintenance issue.

You don't usually see feather loss from mites and lice unless it's scaly leg mites. Can you share these pictures?

With lice you generally will see egg clusters next to the skin on the feather shafts.

There is depluming mites, which I've never seen or dealt with.

 

[Lady of McCamley]

Here are some visual articles to describe the difference between the mites and lice.

Body lice are light tannish, easy to see by eye, slowish moving, live and feed off the feather shafts. They will have a glob of white nits at the base of feathers.

Northern Fowl Mites look like tiny black pepper, fast moving, and feed off the dander and blood they suck up. They live on the bird, but may spend a short time off the bird (hence cleaning the bedding is important).

Red Poultry Mites are seen only at night with flashlight at the vent of the bird. They are small fast crawling black or red specks. You usually see them best as a "pepper glob" in corners or along crevices....sort of like tiny fish eggs.

There are even MORE lice/mite types, too many to mention here.

Since you mention feather loss in your second response, you should be aware there is a depluming mite, which are difficult to treat (and nearly impossible to see as they burrow deep into the shaft and skin). Tell tale signs are a crusty ooze at the base of feathers. Treatment recommended is Ivermectin drops, which is a systemic treatment, since sprays and powders cannot reach them.

I'll post info on all for identification.

HTH
LofMc

https://the-chicken-chick.com/poultry-lice-and-mites-identification/
https://poultrykeeper.com/external-problems/red-mite/
https://poultrykeeper.com/external-problems/depluming-mites/