Head Shaking Then Quickly Dead

[ChickenBoPeep]

Well I wrote this yesterday and had some more bad happen, no symptoms till I thought I was in the clear.
I was looking at the one area where I have the rest who survived in and one was lethargic, I gave special care but once they hit the lethargic stage I know its pretty much over for it. I was hoping all the care I was giving her would help bring her back though...
She passed some time between 1 and 6 this morning. I put her in the fridge and drove her this morning to get testing so there will at least be some explanation for it. Now I have lost 8 birds.
Treating them with the Tylan seemed to help but obviously it stayed around. I have a couple more in this pen doing the head twitch so I don't know but in 7-10 days I will. May lose them, may not but I will supply the findings with everyone so I can help maybe someone else that notices these symptoms in their flock.

 

[dawg53]

Sorry for all those losses. Yes, keep us informed and I wish you the best.

 

[pound4pound]

i'm sorry for what happened to your birds.


regarding the symptoms, the easy questions to ask are:

did you introduce anything new to your birds lately prior to this event? like feed, treat, water supply or vitamin?



there are only 2 things with that kind of behavior:

there is something toxic or possibly expired in the feed or

a bad disease outbreak.


things to do:

have the feed tested for something toxic. or possibly expired

if its a bad disease outbreak, and you cant control it, dispose all the birds and eggs as well. drinkers and feeders as well.

dispose of the birds mean do not bury them in your property or burn them. find a way that you can get rid of them.


rest the area at least 150 days. treat the area with lime. you can plant vegetables at this time or plant any grasses that could be palatable for birds.


you either fight a losing battle to treat the birds or


start a better one and this time have it organized. this would be a perfect time to check out dual purpose birds if you havent had one.

it is hard to lose the birds. :'(

 

[ChickenBoPeep]

Well I have finally received my last report from the diagnostic lab. It was Cocci. I now know two of my mistakes. I didn't practice a proper quarantine period for a new member and I also introduced Medicated chick feed.
Here is what I got verbatim from a website said it was took from the Merk Veterinary Manual:
Polyneuritis in birds represents the later stages of a thiamine deficiency, probably caused by buildup of the intermediates of carbohydrate metabolism. In the initial stages of deficiency, lethargy and head tremors may be noted. A marked decrease in appetite is also seen in birds fed a thiamine-deficient diet. Poultry are also susceptible to neuromuscular problems, resulting in impaired digestion, general weakness, star-gazing, and frequent convulsions.

Glad I didn't off my whole flock lol But seriously I have never dealt with Cocci before but was doing some things different like the introduction of new members and taking some advice I read and started the medicated feed. I have been doing lots of reading and it has helped me to understand a lot. Am just grateful it wasn't something detrimental. I lost 2 more since this post was first started and am very appreciative of everyone's support and thoughts.

Live and learn I guess. Sucks it was some of my best to go...... Thanks again everyone!

 

[Eggcessive]

Well I have finally received my last report from the diagnostic lab. It was Cocci. I now know two of my mistakes. I didn't practice a proper quarantine period for a new member and I also introduced Medicated chick feed.
Here is what I got verbatim from a website said it was took from the Merk Veterinary Manual:
Polyneuritis in birds represents the later stages of a thiamine deficiency, probably caused by buildup of the intermediates of carbohydrate metabolism. In the initial stages of deficiency, lethargy and head tremors may be noted. A marked decrease in appetite is also seen in birds fed a thiamine-deficient diet. Poultry are also susceptible to neuromuscular problems, resulting in impaired digestion, general weakness, star-gazing, and frequent convulsions.

Glad I didn't off my whole flock lol But seriously I have never dealt with Cocci before but was doing some things different like the introduction of new members and taking some advice I read and started the medicated feed. I have been doing lots of reading and it has helped me to understand a lot. Am just grateful it wasn't something detrimental. I lost 2 more since this post was first started and am very appreciative of everyone's support and thoughts.

Live and learn I guess. Sucks it was some of my best to go...... Thanks again everyone!

I'm sorry for your loss, but the use of medicated feed does not cause a thiamine deficiency. Amprollium acts by blocking thiamine uptake in the coccidia oosysts, but it does not cause thiamine deficiency in the chicks.

 

[ChickenBoPeep]

I'm sorry for your loss, but the use of medicated feed does not cause a thiamine deficiency. Amprollium acts by blocking thiamine uptake in the coccidia oosysts, but it does not cause thiamine deficiency in the chicks.

If Amprollium acts by blocking, how could it not be possible to cause a deficiency? Not being a smart...you know.... only trying to absorb others input....


Also are you for or against medicated chick feed? I am not some huge operation, my numbers may be bigger then some, a lot smaller then others. When I read somewhere its good to use that I wanted to be "good" to my chickens. Not cause problems. My biggest I still believe is the improper quarantine practice but can't help but wonder if I went wrong on the choice of using that also after what I have read......

 

[dawg53]

This link explains how corid works:
http://www.corid.com/Pages/CoridProducts.aspx

 

[Nambroth]

Well I have finally received my last report from the diagnostic lab. It was Cocci. I now know two of my mistakes. I didn't practice a proper quarantine period for a new member and I also introduced Medicated chick feed.
Here is what I got verbatim from a website said it was took from the Merk Veterinary Manual:
Polyneuritis in birds represents the later stages of a thiamine deficiency, probably caused by buildup of the intermediates of carbohydrate metabolism. In the initial stages of deficiency, lethargy and head tremors may be noted. A marked decrease in appetite is also seen in birds fed a thiamine-deficient diet. Poultry are also susceptible to neuromuscular problems, resulting in impaired digestion, general weakness, star-gazing, and frequent convulsions.

Glad I didn't off my whole flock lol But seriously I have never dealt with Cocci before but was doing some things different like the introduction of new members and taking some advice I read and started the medicated feed. I have been doing lots of reading and it has helped me to understand a lot. Am just grateful it wasn't something detrimental. I lost 2 more since this post was first started and am very appreciative of everyone's support and thoughts.

Live and learn I guess. Sucks it was some of my best to go...... Thanks again everyone!

Thank you for posting your findings, I hope that they can help others in the future!

If the necropsy suggests a clinical thiamine deficiency, the most common cause is diet. The medication isn't the problem, but a lack in quality in the feed... either old feed, or feed that has not been formulated properly. If feeds use fish meal as the thiamine/protein source and it is not of a high enough quality, OR it is not processed properly, OR if it is old feed, birds eating it over time can develop deficiencies. Even big brand name feeds have been recalled due to vitamin imbalances. ( https://www.avma.org/news/issues/re...-food-safety-recalls-alerts.aspx?fvalue=Other )
If you still have birds left, get them on a different feed (or, if the feed was old, get a fresh bag) and supplement; nutritional yeast is an easy supplement that is high specifically in thiamine/B1. If they are showing signs at any point, supplementation may need to be aggressive.

There are other reasons for thiamine deficiency, but given that you lost many birds to this and the common factor is feed, that is where I would suggest focusing your attention to start.

 

[ChickenBoPeep]

Thanks Dawg for that link I will check it out, I have know from the second report (they sent 4) that Cocci was it but I wanted to make sure the findings didn't suggest anything else before posting. I have been doing a lot of reading on it and treated everyone.

Maybe I worded wrong. The thiamine deficiency is what I found upon reading about medicated feed. When researching Cocci I started looking at things that involved feed and came across the quote about thiamine deficiency and the thing that hit home with me and I couldn't find in other peoples symptons is the head tremors mine are experiencing.

I would just like to know other's reasons why or why not to use medicated chick feed. Just seems like maybe is adding to the problem... Just not 100% on that yet..... Learning as I go.....
Maybe even some more tips like what you are suggesting about adding things to make up for that B1 loss. I have the survivors of that group that died, their are 4 left in that group and they still are doing the head tremor thing so I am sure I do need to add something.

When you say supplementation needs to be aggressive, please give me all I should do lol Still some awesome birds in that group.

OK sorry if rambling its just a little over whelming starting on something I haven't ever done or experienced before.

Thanks all.

 

[realsis]

I had a vitamin defiency in my own flock and I was feeding puriena layer feed. Sometimes the bags sit on the stores shelves for some time and they loose their vitamin content.my solution to this problem was ordering my feed from a mill that mills small quantities at a time and is insured fresh. I also make sure the feed is USDA certified organic.it has more vitamins in it and probotics. I now order online from the mill when I need it and it's shipped to me. Birds are doing well thank God and I think getting a all organic feed has made a huge difference. I also supplement with vitamins in their water supply now.hope this helps you out. Look at labels of what your feeding also look at date milled. Best of luck.