Healthy Chick Dead, Please Help

[aoxa]

I haven't seen any issues that I can specifically trace to the medicated feed, although I did see last year that it no longer seemed to be working. The batch of layers/meaties that I bought in the spring of last year, before I started the FF, were on the medicated feed and I still had large losses anyway. Plus I am especially wanting to get all of my animals off of any GMO feed, and that isn't possible using commercial feed. I HAVE seen health issues that I am pretty sure are traceable to the GMOs in the feeds, so I am hoping to see improved health and reproduction in my poultry and my goats for 2013 now that they are all on non-GMO feeds.

Since I have switched from medicated to non medicated feed at hatch, I have lost zero chicks. I've hatched 35 and not a single loss. Before that, I was losing 1-3 each hatch. Sometimes more. None of my broodies were ever given medicated feed, so that got me to thinking. If my broodies never lost any chicks, and the ones I was raising were having a few losses here and there, what am I doing differently? That was my first clue. Once switched, I am a believer.

 

[my sunwolf]

This is what I do as well.

Medicated feed has caused me too many issues to ignore.

Ooh, aoxa, what issues are you referring to?

The only other batch of chicks I've had were vaccinated against cocci as day-olds by the seller, so of course I fed them non-medicated.

cutechick2010, I've been reading up on FF and I'm not really up to doing the daily tasks that go into fermenting feed (namely, the stirring), but it is intriguing. I guess I'm worried I'd be one of those who lets it go TOO far and makes all my birds sick on spoiled feed because I can't smell the difference...

What about supplementing non-medicated feed with cultured food like yogurt, ACV, cheese, etc? Better than nothing?

Today no deaths, but I'm interested to see how they do approaching the 12 week point when it's supposed to be the worst. I don't kill excess EE cockerels until 16 weeks, so I guess now I have to hope they live that long. I'll keep doing the ACV in the water and yogurt (though they hate the texture) and maybe I will try to figure out how to ferment some grains for them as a supplement to their feed.

 

[aoxa]

Ooh, aoxa, what issues are you referring to?

The only other batch of chicks I've had were vaccinated against cocci as day-olds by the seller, so of course I fed them non-medicated.

cutechick2010, I've been reading up on FF and I'm not really up to doing the daily tasks that go into fermenting feed (namely, the stirring), but it is intriguing. I guess I'm worried I'd be one of those who lets it go TOO far and makes all my birds sick on spoiled feed because I can't smell the difference...

What about supplementing non-medicated feed with cultured food like yogurt, ACV, cheese, etc? Better than nothing?

Today no deaths, but I'm interested to see how they do approaching the 12 week point when it's supposed to be the worst. I don't kill excess EE cockerels until 16 weeks, so I guess now I have to hope they live that long. I'll keep doing the ACV in the water and yogurt (though they hate the texture) and maybe I will try to figure out how to ferment some grains for them as a supplement to their feed.

Wet feed is better than dry. You don't even have to let it ferment if you are not up to the task.

ACV with mother has living probioitics and is a good choice in natural Cocci prevention.

Also, I've never had a chick get sick from FF. I stir once a day when I give them food. Takes very little time. You can definitely smell and see if it is getting funky.

I didn't know you could vaccinate against cocci.

On the things I've seen with medicated feed are just healthy chicks, dead. I have seen a few fail to thrive.



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[my sunwolf]

Awesome, thank you, and that quote was perfect!!

 

[loanwizard]

Quote:
Quote: I am getting myself in a realm of which I know a little, but perhaps just enough to get me in trouble.
If deep litter is done properly then no, it won't make diseases worse, however improperly and you could possibly kill your entire flock. (Just had a friend lose 4 horses to bad hay). That said, I believe, as you do, that the little poo is probably beneficial to their immune systems. I honestly think you may have sold yourself on the idea that the little one died from that dreaded disease and I think that sometimes chickens just die.

I never measure the ACV, but you cannot overdose them.... I don't think lol! Anyhow, I put 3 or 4 glugs in a 5 gallon, so don't be cheap (cheep) with the ACV.

I have been feeding non medicated for 1 1/2 years or approximately 500-700 chicks.

Good luck and a lot of good people here to carry on or correct me if necessary. This is just my experience.

Shawn

 

[my sunwolf]

I am getting myself in a realm of which I know a little, but perhaps just enough to get me in trouble.
If deep litter is done properly then no, it won't make diseases worse, however improperly and you could possibly kill your entire flock. (Just had a friend lose 4 horses to bad hay). That said, I believe, as you do, that the little poo is probably beneficial to their immune systems. I honestly think you may have sold yourself on the idea that the little one died from that dreaded disease and I think that sometimes chickens just die.

I never measure the ACV, but you cannot overdose them.... I don't think lol! Anyhow, I put 3 or 4 glugs in a 5 gallon, so don't be cheap (cheep) with the ACV.

I have been feeding non medicated for 1 1/2 years or approximately 500-700 chicks.

Good luck and a lot of good people here to carry on or correct me if necessary. This is just my experience.

Shawn

No, I definitely hear you on the deep litter problem... (4 horses to bad hay?? yikes). I have a friend who has 50+ chickens free ranging on the property and hasn't cleaned the coop in years. The deep litter consists of dried poo, with a little hay mixed in. It's extremely unpleasant to be in that coop, and it's not really big enough for that many chickens. Some of them manage to be healthy, unless you count the external parasites, and most of them have vent gleet or worms. That really doesn't seem like the right way to do it.

Mine is just 4" deep pine shavings/straw/dry oak leaves stirred daily, every other day adding another layer. They love to scratch in it. It smells a little in there right now because I don't have enough ventilation and my SO is fretting about me sawing a hole in our "shed" (which I've decided is the chicken coop), but the smell is not too bad. I keep the wood door open and the wire door closed when I'm there to watch them so some air can exchange a few times a day. Though it has been COLD.

I've been doing the ACV and they're still drinking their water, so that's good (I've had hens who won't drink past 1 T ACV / gallon, not sure why). I just transitioned them onto a different feed after the death--it's now a locally milled brand (same ingredients as Dumor but higher protein and fresher). It smells like ground corn and freshly cut hay. It's even got a greenish tinge (not mold, I've seen mold), whereas the other stuff was brown. The new stuff smells like something I would actually want to eat. They seem to really like it. I'm thinking of taking aoxa's advice and feeding it wet, but first I've got to get more of those rubber goat bowls that are so very useful.

No one else has died! I just hate not knowing what was wrong with the little guy. A few of the others look puffed up and droopy eyed from time to time, but I think they might just be sleepy because they will then perk up and fly around the shed like real birds. Yeah, I do tend to worry about them. It's gotten a lot better since the first batch, believe me.

I'll update if anything else scary starts to happen. For now, thank you everyone for the advice. It's so nice to have BYC as a resource!

 

[aoxa]

It's very important to keep the DL aerated. It should not smell like anything more than earth.

If you smell ammonia, add fresh bedding, and stir it up really well. I put my chickens to work for me. Scratch + new bedding = lots of fun! I also will add in some stable boy which gets rid of ammonia within 5 minutes. It works wonders, but I only use it around my really wet areas.

I had a really bad experience with DL last winter. It packed down and did not aerate properly and stunk really bad. If there is air in it, it's going to be a lot healthier.

 

[my sunwolf]

It's very important to keep the DL aerated. It should not smell like anything more than earth.

If you smell ammonia, add fresh bedding, and stir it up really well. I put my chickens to work for me. Scratch + new bedding = lots of fun! I also will add in some stable boy which gets rid of ammonia within 5 minutes. It works wonders, but I only use it around my really wet areas.

I had a really bad experience with DL last winter. It packed down and did not aerate properly and stunk really bad. If there is air in it, it's going to be a lot healthier.

I added some straw today and, despite my past experiences with straw, it smelled better than the wood shavings. I think the shavings are getting packed down too much and the straw helps to get some air in there and keep it fluffy. Plus the chicks had the most fun ever scratching in the stuff

Do you think they're big enough to properly digest cracked corn? I could sprinkle some of that to get them excited about their bedding.

Is there a difference between the poop smell and the ammonia smell? I've smelled the ammonia when the hens' bedding gets sopping wet and can't soak up ammonia from their poo properly. But I've also smelled the freshly-pooped poop smell in the coop from when the poop's still on the surface and hasn't gotten kicked down into the bedding yet. The babies always just smell like this second poop smell.

It's a good thing I don't mind dealing with poop because chickens poop A LOT for their little sizes

 

[aoxa]

I added some straw today and, despite my past experiences with straw, it smelled better than the wood shavings. I think the shavings are getting packed down too much and the straw helps to get some air in there and keep it fluffy. Plus the chicks had the most fun ever scratching in the stuff

Do you think they're big enough to properly digest cracked corn? I could sprinkle some of that to get them excited about their bedding.

Is there a difference between the poop smell and the ammonia smell? I've smelled the ammonia when the hens' bedding gets sopping wet and can't soak up ammonia from their poo properly. But I've also smelled the freshly-pooped poop smell in the coop from when the poop's still on the surface and hasn't gotten kicked down into the bedding yet. The babies always just smell like this second poop smell.

It's a good thing I don't mind dealing with poop because chickens poop A LOT for their little sizes

Yes they are big enough, as long as they have grit.

Poop smell is normal if it's fresh. It shouldn't be overly poopy smelling though. Only time I'll smell poop is first thing in the morning before their bedding is stirred from under the roosts.

The amonia smell is different from the poop smell. It's when the bedding is wet. Dry bedding shouldn't have that smell. I keep water outside at all times as I have waterfowl who will smell up the bedding by spilling water.

 

[loanwizard]

Ammonia smell is bad and unmistakable especially if you have as many birds as I do lol!

I have irrigation issues so my DL is not perfect but good enough for me. I have not cleaned out my coop in 9 mo and it is solid. Dry on top, frozen and/or wet on the bottom I suppose. I will work it in the spring and either take it to the garden or compost it for a couple weeks depending upon consistency and smell.

I liken it to the forest floor. The forest floor can be dry and crinkly on top but damp on the bottom. I continually add hay or shredded leaves. That said, there is a LOT of nitrogen rich poop in the roost area, naturally, but they leave it around 5-6am daily as there is no lock down on my place.

I am actually looking for a better method of recycling at the house. There are usually 6 of us at any one time and the garbage we generate is ridiculous. This spring I will concentrate on that portion of recycling/composting etc....