I have been to that vet in VT. She will make Charlie as comfortable as possible with out draining your wallet. I lost my chocolate lab just over a year ago and still miss her. Good luck with Charlie and our prayers are with you.
Heart trouble
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If your vet won't work with you, find another vet who will. The meds won't fix his heart failure, but they will make him much more comfortable. Otherwise, we have to consider quality of life issues.
ps - Nyquil contains tylenol, which is toxic to dogs. If you just want to sedate him, you might be better off just giving him benedryl.
ps - Nyquil contains tylenol, which is toxic to dogs. If you just want to sedate him, you might be better off just giving him benedryl.
He is beautiful. Trust me, you'll get no argument from me regarding your decision to keep him happy at home. Sounds like he's got a lot of cards stacked against him. A call to that vet is a great idea though. Doesn't hurt to see what kind of help you can get without a large withdrawl. My prayers are with you and Charlie.
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Quote:
Thanks. I didn't know that. Fortunately it helped him rest through the night. I will try to find out more today.
Thanks 6chix, I am going to call her today.
Thanks. I didn't know that. Fortunately it helped him rest through the night. I will try to find out more today.
Thanks 6chix, I am going to call her today.
I would definitely call the vet before dosing with nyquil again, as most of the nyquil verions contain acetominephin, which is fairly toxic to dogs. Not saying you did anything wrong or are going to have problems from it, but you don't want to cause any unnecessary other problems either. Your vet should be able, for just the cost of an office visit, to examine Charlie and see whether the coughing IS in fact a sign of advancing heart problems or not (remember *any* dog can get a cold, or something stuck in his throat, etc). Hopefully then your vet could also discuss symptomatic or presumptive treatments with you.
The reason they will not generally prescribe diuretic or other drug treatments without something like an u/s or ecg plus bloodwork is mainly that if the problem is actually something else (or the dog has another problem too, like borderline kidney function), diuretics etc could be really harmful. I totally know what you mean, however, as we went thru pretty much the exact same scenario with a beloved cat a few years ago. It is just hard, no matter how you slice it.
Hugs and good luck, and a pat on the head for Charlie,
Pat
The reason they will not generally prescribe diuretic or other drug treatments without something like an u/s or ecg plus bloodwork is mainly that if the problem is actually something else (or the dog has another problem too, like borderline kidney function), diuretics etc could be really harmful. I totally know what you mean, however, as we went thru pretty much the exact same scenario with a beloved cat a few years ago. It is just hard, no matter how you slice it.
Hugs and good luck, and a pat on the head for Charlie,
Pat
I'm so sorry about Charlie. I had a Shorthair pointer growing up and she had a cancerous tumor in her throat and that caused the coughing. For now keep an eye on her.
Have you spoken frankly to your Vet? If they know the conditions he has I dont' understand why they would go through so many tests. I guess though they would have to rule out heart or tumor. If the tumor keeps growing, that could be irritating his windpipe, causing him to cough. The heart could be fixed with some meds. It's too bad they can't do a trial run on the heart meds. If he gets better then keep him on it. They already know he's got the conditon, just not further symptoms till now.
It's so hard finding a good vet. My Dad was a Vet, and it's a tough job, dogs don't talk, however some Vets like to start at the top of the chain running all sorts of test and bleeding owners dry.
I wish I could be of help, at least call the vet, see what they say. Tell them I have "x" amount of money to spend on tests or whatever, and what can we do with that?
Maybe he'll work with you.
It's tough, I'm so sorry.
Good luck
Steph
Have you spoken frankly to your Vet? If they know the conditions he has I dont' understand why they would go through so many tests. I guess though they would have to rule out heart or tumor. If the tumor keeps growing, that could be irritating his windpipe, causing him to cough. The heart could be fixed with some meds. It's too bad they can't do a trial run on the heart meds. If he gets better then keep him on it. They already know he's got the conditon, just not further symptoms till now.
It's so hard finding a good vet. My Dad was a Vet, and it's a tough job, dogs don't talk, however some Vets like to start at the top of the chain running all sorts of test and bleeding owners dry.
I wish I could be of help, at least call the vet, see what they say. Tell them I have "x" amount of money to spend on tests or whatever, and what can we do with that?
Maybe he'll work with you.
It's tough, I'm so sorry.
Good luck
Steph
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- #17
Thanks everyone. My vet is actually a very good vet and i would not give her up. I just wish when a dog is getting old, they might not go by the books so much. I think that they should be able to make a few guess treatments based on the symtoms. I know this is not something we can really 'fix' but if anyone can tell me what to expect when he begins to take a turn so i will recognize it, i would appreciate it.
PAT....you said you went through it with your cat......what might i expect? I would like to have enough knowledge to know when to step in before charlie has to suffer.
PAT....you said you went through it with your cat......what might i expect? I would like to have enough knowledge to know when to step in before charlie has to suffer.
Quote:
Well, for whatever it's worth, (he was a cat not a dog, and this is NOT a prediction for Charlie in any way):
Cato was diagnosed with a heart murmur and probable early (left? right? sorry, I forget) heart failure when he was 14. I had taken him in b/c he seemed to be breathing a bit faster than usual lately, although seemed fine otherwise. I did have u/s and ecg done to confirm the diagnosis (I'd look up what the papers said exactly but I currently have a baby asleep on my left arm and am stuck here
). I started him on lasix and some heart pill, forget what, but he did not tolerate daily pilling well and seemed to get much worse so I quit after 5 days or so and he went back to previous state of basically ok.
After I think about 2-3 months though I noticed he was only walking anymore and not trotting or running, and would stop and lay down in the midst of walking from one end of the house to the other. Occasional soft coughing. His breathing also became more obvious and labored, and I could feel his heartbeat really strongly.
A week or two of that, and then Cato started hiding a lot, just curled up in a cardboard box half-asleep, and would not walk far at all without resting a long time. (Never did cough a lot, just sometimes, btw.). Seemed happy enough though.
After a few days of that, he just seemed too tired to move much at ALL and seemed like he was worried about how he was feeling, and there did not seem any realistic hope he'd get better even temporarily, so I took him to the vet and had him put to sleep (actually, a nighttime emergency call, went to vet;s house, b/c I had an unbreakable obligation all next day and did not want Cato to suffer.) I was very sad, esp. since the next day I found out I was pregnant and you know what hormones do to your emotions ;P
I think I did it pretty much right in this particular case, I think this gave him best quality of life. But it is still hard and a lot of no fun, having friends with shorter lifespans than we have. I miss my Cato-bear
Good luck and hugs,
Pat, whose current oldest cat, at just 10, has probably-thyroid-related heart problems, but she is SO terrified of vet visits it seems kindest not to hassle her with lots of attempts at diagnosis or treatment. Note that I have had other cats who I did treat extensively for chronic incurable problems, so it is not like I am a neglectful person, I just think you have to look at what suits each individual animal.
Well, for whatever it's worth, (he was a cat not a dog, and this is NOT a prediction for Charlie in any way):
Cato was diagnosed with a heart murmur and probable early (left? right? sorry, I forget) heart failure when he was 14. I had taken him in b/c he seemed to be breathing a bit faster than usual lately, although seemed fine otherwise. I did have u/s and ecg done to confirm the diagnosis (I'd look up what the papers said exactly but I currently have a baby asleep on my left arm and am stuck here
After I think about 2-3 months though I noticed he was only walking anymore and not trotting or running, and would stop and lay down in the midst of walking from one end of the house to the other. Occasional soft coughing. His breathing also became more obvious and labored, and I could feel his heartbeat really strongly.
A week or two of that, and then Cato started hiding a lot, just curled up in a cardboard box half-asleep, and would not walk far at all without resting a long time. (Never did cough a lot, just sometimes, btw.). Seemed happy enough though.
After a few days of that, he just seemed too tired to move much at ALL and seemed like he was worried about how he was feeling, and there did not seem any realistic hope he'd get better even temporarily, so I took him to the vet and had him put to sleep (actually, a nighttime emergency call, went to vet;s house, b/c I had an unbreakable obligation all next day and did not want Cato to suffer.) I was very sad, esp. since the next day I found out I was pregnant and you know what hormones do to your emotions ;P
I think I did it pretty much right in this particular case, I think this gave him best quality of life. But it is still hard and a lot of no fun, having friends with shorter lifespans than we have. I miss my Cato-bear
Good luck and hugs,
Pat, whose current oldest cat, at just 10, has probably-thyroid-related heart problems, but she is SO terrified of vet visits it seems kindest not to hassle her with lots of attempts at diagnosis or treatment. Note that I have had other cats who I did treat extensively for chronic incurable problems, so it is not like I am a neglectful person, I just think you have to look at what suits each individual animal.
My dog is also named Charlie. She's 8+ years old now and I've had her since she was approx. 10 months old. She contracted heartworms before I got her (as a pup). When she was younger I couldn't afford the treatment for the heartworms and now that she's older and I can afford it, my vet tells me that it would be too dangerous at her age. The treatment for heartworms is no walk in the park.
Charlie coughs too. Not alot, but occasionally. She has done this for several years now. I know it's the heartworms and that it means she is going into heart failure, but it doesn't mean she is going to die overnight. The vet told me when she goes from the heart failure, it will probably be very quick...a heart attack.
She has a great life, has always been a treasured part of the family, and I just concentrate on keeping her happy until it's her time. If I thought she was suffering in any way I would have her euthanized.
I agree with the others about the Nyquil. About the water pills (diurex) I would be very hesistant to use that as well. When you use diuretics to lose water, you also lose potassium and potassium is necessary for a healthy beating heat. Ironically, an overdose of potassium is often used for euthanasia. It's in a delicate balance in your body.
I have to use diuretics myself, but as a human I can replace the lost potassium with bananas and prunes. I doubt that it would be that easy to replace in a dog.
If you absolutely can't afford the vet for medications (the appropriate ones for a dog and in the right dosages) I would say just make the dog as comfortable as possible and keep in mind that sometimes euthansia is the greatest final gift we can give our furry friends. BUT I'm not sure your dog has gotten to the point just because of the cough...again, my Charlie has had her cough for several years now and still looks and acts like a normal, happy dog.
Blessings, Kat
Charlie coughs too. Not alot, but occasionally. She has done this for several years now. I know it's the heartworms and that it means she is going into heart failure, but it doesn't mean she is going to die overnight. The vet told me when she goes from the heart failure, it will probably be very quick...a heart attack.
She has a great life, has always been a treasured part of the family, and I just concentrate on keeping her happy until it's her time. If I thought she was suffering in any way I would have her euthanized.
I agree with the others about the Nyquil. About the water pills (diurex) I would be very hesistant to use that as well. When you use diuretics to lose water, you also lose potassium and potassium is necessary for a healthy beating heat. Ironically, an overdose of potassium is often used for euthanasia. It's in a delicate balance in your body.
I have to use diuretics myself, but as a human I can replace the lost potassium with bananas and prunes. I doubt that it would be that easy to replace in a dog.
If you absolutely can't afford the vet for medications (the appropriate ones for a dog and in the right dosages) I would say just make the dog as comfortable as possible and keep in mind that sometimes euthansia is the greatest final gift we can give our furry friends. BUT I'm not sure your dog has gotten to the point just because of the cough...again, my Charlie has had her cough for several years now and still looks and acts like a normal, happy dog.
Blessings, Kat
We had a dog years ago that the vet said had heart trouble and he was expected to live at the most 6 months. He lived a couple more years. The vets can only give you what is considered normal with the condition and each animals will to live can change that.
Good luck with Charlie and hopefully the end is quick and you won't have to make the decision. It is hard to tell when to step in.
Good luck with Charlie and hopefully the end is quick and you won't have to make the decision. It is hard to tell when to step in.
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