Help and advice please

[NatJ]

I believe the main reason for these incessant vocalizations is the fact that she has 4 or 5 roosters (she doesn't even know) and only 5-6 hens. My research on this site tells me the correct ratio should be 1 rooster per ten hens.

The ratio of 1 rooster to 10 hens is not relevant here.

That ratio is correct for commercial breeders with hundreds and thousands of hens & roosters. Roosters eat feed but do not lay eggs, so those breeders want to keep the fewest possible roosters while still having all the eggs be fertile. 1 rooster for 10 hens is about right for some breeds, while others need more roosters (as high as 1 rooster per 5 or 6 hens) and others can get by with less (1 rooster for 12 to 15 hens.) But since your neighbor is not trying for maximum fertile eggs per rooster fed, the commercial ratio does not matter.

People breeding chickens on a smaller scale (like for shows) will sometimes keep equal numbers of roosters and hens, or a ratio of one rooster to two hens, or various other numbers. It depends on the breed, the individual chickens, and the owner's goals.

For people keeping chickens as pets, who do not care if the eggs are fertile or not, ANY ratio can work as long as the individual chickens are not causing issues for each other (like roosters injuring each other in fights, or roosters injuring hens by over-mating.)

Some people even keep flocks of just roosters (sometimes called a "bachelor flock.") That can work fine too.

Some people raise roosters for specific purposes (like feathers for flytying and other crafts), but of course raising roosters for that has nothing to do with any rooster/hen ratio.

None of those has anything to do with the amount of noise the roosters will or will not make, just like none of them has anything to do with what chickens would "naturally" do in the wild, or what would make any specific chicken "happy."

As regards your neighbor's chickens, if she kept the males & females in separate pens, that would guarantee no overmating of the hens, but would probably not do anything to fix the noise.

Personally, I do not think that more hens would make your neighbor's roosters any quieter, but of course I could be wrong about that.

I'm going before the board of supervisors to encourage them to amend the ordinances so they are empowered to address situations like mine by adding specific language about keeping an acceptable rooster to hen ratio, adding in language to address nuisance animals, and also something that addresses soundproofing. I don't expect much to happen but it will be a start at least.

No matter what rooster to hen ratio you choose, someone will be able to provide good evidence of times when it is wrong for one purpose or another. So I suggest you make sure you have good points to support whatever number you suggest.

I suspect it would work better to have a limit on roosters-per-acre, or some kind of total noise limit, rather than trying for a rule about rooster/hen ratios.

 

[K0k0shka]

Roosters who see each other as competition do crow more though, as crowing is also an expression of dominance or a challenge. So one single rooster with his own flock of hens won’t crow as much as several roosters competing with each other for insufficient hens. So the ratio does matter in the context of the noise.

 

[NatJ]

Roosters who see each other as competition do crow more though, as crowing is also an expression of dominance or a challenge. So one single rooster with his own flock of hens won’t crow as much as several roosters competing with each other for insufficient hens. So the ratio does matter in the context of the noise.

So for the same number of roosters, adding more hens really will reduce the noise? I had assumed they would all compete anyway.

 

[K0k0shka]

So for the same number of roosters, adding more hens really will reduce the noise? I had assumed they would all compete anyway.

As long as they are in competition with each other, they’ll try to out-yell each other. Maybe if they had SO many hens, that there was plenty to go around, they would chill… But how many is that? And would they chill, or would they object to the very presence of other roosters, period? Who knows. Some roosters strike a divide-and-conquer deal, if they have enough hens, and live peacefully together in sub-flocks. With others, if one has a clear advantage, and the other roosters accept his dominion over all the hens, they can stop crowing and live quietly as non-procreating members of the flock. I’ve seen that with injured or disabled roosters who realize they stand no chance, and take themselves out of the mating game. The reigning rooster doesn’t see them as challengers, leaves them alone, and only crows the normal amount. But if each rooster wants to try his luck, and they don’t have enough hens for their only chance at peace - reaching a divide-and-conquer deal - then they’ll keep yelling and challenging each other.

 

[EuroChook]

Im in Bucks County sadly. The case I referenced was Chester County which is in PA also which tells me there is legal precedence for the courts being on my side of this with regards to it being a private nuisance should it come to that.

There would have to be something, one would suspect, in a civilized country. Im very sorry for your situation. I moved to this place with no indications of renovations hsppening next door... and since they are cheap, they are using the slave labor of friends and family. So sporadically, whenever those are available, there is hammering and electric saws and junk.... all day long... I like peace. I like quiet. And its been going on for 6 weeks on and off... so I definitely sympathize. Meanwhile, old landlord is trying to keep all my security deposit.

So yes.... people just want to do whatever and whenever... I really sympathize.

 

[aart]

or would they object to the very presence of other roosters, period?

More than likely, yes.

 

[glocke12]

The ratio of 1 rooster to 10 hens is not relevant here.

That ratio is correct for commercial breeders with hundreds and thousands of hens & roosters. Roosters eat feed but do not lay eggs, so those breeders want to keep the fewest possible roosters while still having all the eggs be fertile. 1 rooster for 10 hens is about right for some breeds, while others need more roosters (as high as 1 rooster per 5 or 6 hens) and others can get by with less (1 rooster for 12 to 15 hens.) But since your neighbor is not trying for maximum fertile eggs per rooster fed, the commercial ratio does not matter.

People breeding chickens on a smaller scale (like for shows) will sometimes keep equal numbers of roosters and hens, or a ratio of one rooster to two hens, or various other numbers. It depends on the breed, the individual chickens, and the owner's goals.

For people keeping chickens as pets, who do not care if the eggs are fertile or not, ANY ratio can work as long as the individual chickens are not causing issues for each other (like roosters injuring each other in fights, or roosters injuring hens by over-mating.)

Some people even keep flocks of just roosters (sometimes called a "bachelor flock.") That can work fine too.

Some people raise roosters for specific purposes (like feathers for flytying and other crafts), but of course raising roosters for that has nothing to do with any rooster/hen ratio.

None of those has anything to do with the amount of noise the roosters will or will not make, just like none of them has anything to do with what chickens would "naturally" do in the wild, or what would make any specific chicken "happy."

As regards your neighbor's chickens, if she kept the males & females in separate pens, that would guarantee no overmating of the hens, but would probably not do anything to fix the noise.

Personally, I do not think that more hens would make your neighbor's roosters any quieter, but of course I could be wrong about that.



No matter what rooster to hen ratio you choose, someone will be able to provide good evidence of times when it is wrong for one purpose or another. So I suggest you make sure you have good points to support whatever number you suggest.

I suspect it would work better to have a limit on roosters-per-acre, or some kind of total noise limit, rather than trying for a rule about rooster/hen ratios.

Ok thanks thats good information and I appreciate it. I didn't realize that the 1:10 ratio only applied to commercial breeders as the websites I got that information from didn't specify that. I had thought that was just a ratio that existed out of long established animal husbandry practices of keeping chickens and roosters no matter what the reason for keeping the birds was.

I'll omit that part when I go in front of the BoS and just address it from the standpoint of it being a private nuisance as below "

1. A Township Ordinance provides that it shall be unlawful within
   the Township for any person or persons to own, possess, harbor or control any animal or bird which makes noise continuously and/or incessantly to the disturbance of any person for a period of 15 minutes or more between the hours of 8:00 a.m. through 10:00 p.m. or for a period of 10 minutes or more between the hours of 10:00 p.m. through 8:00 a.m. or makes such noise intermittently for 1/2 hour or more any time of the day or night, regardless of whether the animal or bird is physically situated in or upon private property, said noise being a nuisance, provided that at the time the animal or bird is making such noise, no person is trespassing or threatening to trespass upon private property in or upon which the animal or bird is situated. "

Based on other replies in this thread, is it safe to say that having multiple roosters can lead to frequent vocalizations as they are trying to establish dominance over one another for whatever number of hens there are ?

As far as getting other neighbors on board with this, I know the people on the opposite side of me don't want to hear these birds as they have commented on it but they just moved in and don't want to get involved, other neighbors have issues with this woman for one reason or another that range from her horses and birds wandering onto their property, to her pulling out survey stakes placed by a licensed surveyor when someone bought a neighboring property and had his land surveyed to be certain of the the property lines. She disagreed with the survey and pulled the stakes out. Those other neighbors don't want to get involved as they are afraid of retribution from her (they have kids, animals of their own, etc..)

It's just an awful situation. As I said earlier, I've been trying to get used to it for two years and cannot, and this summer I've been home on medical leave for back surgery and was laying there recovering after getting home from the hospital listening to all of this and just couldn't deal with it any longer and thats when I nicely asked her to address the situation somehow. I offered to pay for baffling on the pen to keep the noise down, I offered to buy no-crow collars, etc...and was basically told to pound sand and she and her boyfriend went onto imply my complaints were due to my health status. Fortunately I've got texts and email to friends and relatives that document my complaints for almost two years.

I was hoping to retire here in 2-3 years but I can't imagine retiring here and dealing with that noise, and if I were to try to sell this property I can't imagine anyone in their right mind buying it after hearing that racket next door.

 

[LaFleche]

Based on other replies in this thread, is it safe to say that having multiple roosters can lead to frequent vocalizations as they are trying to establish dominance over one another for whatever number of hens there are ?

Yes, as they start crowing contests.

 

[DLA]

Ok thanks thats good information and I appreciate it. I didn't realize that the 1:10 ratio only applied to commercial breeders as the websites I got that information from didn't specify that. I had thought that was just a ratio that existed out of long established animal husbandry practices of keeping chickens and roosters no matter what the reason for keeping the birds was.

I'll omit that part when I go in front of the BoS and just address it from the standpoint of it being a private nuisance as below "

1. A Township Ordinance provides that it shall be unlawful within
   the Township for any person or persons to own, possess, harbor or control any animal or bird which makes noise continuously and/or incessantly to the disturbance of any person for a period of 15 minutes or more between the hours of 8:00 a.m. through 10:00 p.m. or for a period of 10 minutes or more between the hours of 10:00 p.m. through 8:00 a.m. or makes such noise intermittently for 1/2 hour or more any time of the day or night, regardless of whether the animal or bird is physically situated in or upon private property, said noise being a nuisance, provided that at the time the animal or bird is making such noise, no person is trespassing or threatening to trespass upon private property in or upon which the animal or bird is situated. "

Based on other replies in this thread, is it safe to say that having multiple roosters can lead to frequent vocalizations as they are trying to establish dominance over one another for whatever number of hens there are ?

As far as getting other neighbors on board with this, I know the people on the opposite side of me don't want to hear these birds as they have commented on it but they just moved in and don't want to get involved, other neighbors have issues with this woman for one reason or another that range from her horses and birds wandering onto their property, to her pulling out survey stakes placed by a licensed surveyor when someone bought a neighboring property and had his land surveyed to be certain of the the property lines. She disagreed with the survey and pulled the stakes out. Those other neighbors don't want to get involved as they are afraid of retribution from her (they have kids, animals of their own, etc..)

It's just an awful situation. As I said earlier, I've been trying to get used to it for two years and cannot, and this summer I've been home on medical leave for back surgery and was laying there recovering after getting home from the hospital listening to all of this and just couldn't deal with it any longer and thats when I nicely asked her to address the situation somehow. I offered to pay for baffling on the pen to keep the noise down, I offered to buy no-crow collars, etc...and was basically told to pound sand and she and her boyfriend went onto imply my complaints were due to my health status. Fortunately I've got texts and email to friends and relatives that document my complaints for almost two years.

I was hoping to retire here in 2-3 years but I can't imagine retiring here and dealing with that noise, and if I were to try to sell this property I can't imagine anyone in their right mind buying it after hearing that racket next door.

It makes me really sad that people have to act like your neighbors. It is an awful situation. I hope you're able to find a solution.

 

[K0k0shka]

I'm going before the board of supervisors to encourage them to amend the ordinances so they are empowered to address situations like mine by adding specific language about keeping an acceptable rooster to hen ratio, adding in language to address nuisance animals, and also something that addresses soundproofing. I don't expect much to happen but it will be a start at least.

Going for an amendment to the ordinances is actually a great idea! A lot of these laws and ordinances are old and outdated - times change, animal ownership changes, etc. This happened in our town, too, except in the other direction - grumpy neighbors used vague ordinances to demand that chickens be restricted or downright banned. So I led a revolution, got the town's chicken owners together to protest and petition and the Board of Health ended up rewriting the animal ownership ordinance with specific language addressing (and protecting) chickens. It can be done! Good luck!