HELP EMERGENCY Please Advise: Acute onset, ataxia, tipping over onto bottom, cannot walk, panting

[guernsi]

Please help me with this emergency. I don't have enough chicken experience to diagnose.

PROBLEM: I have a just over 2 month old light morph Americana. Two mornings ago, she did not come down with the rest of the chicks as usual, then acted a little bit ataxic (wobbling, no clear direction) once she did join them. Her tail feathers were all pointed to one side as well. Since this incident, she acted normal until this morning. I discovered her this morning again up in the house, not having come down with the other chicks. She appeared to be dust bathing, but when I looked closer I found she couldn't stand up at all and she was struggling, not bathing. Her legs were straightened out in front of her and she was sitting on her bottom. I discovered reddish bruising on the backs of her legs, probably from all her struggling to get up. I held her at the waterer and she drank a small amount and ate a small amount. I gave her a small piece of bread and she was able to get to her feet and carry it around, but acted dazed and didn't seem to know where she was going.

PRESENTLY: I don't know what could be causing this, please help ! She is deteriorating rapidly. She's in her own box in the house now, but seems too painful to pick up. She screams and flaps her wings when I lift her up. Her legs are protruding forward (like they are stuck in place), not under her body like a normal sitting posture. I can stretch and bend her legs and this doesn't seem to cause her distress. No obvious lumps or bumps. Her eyes look a little bit sunken (the pink moist skin around them seems more prominent than normal). She is open-mouth breathing now, obviously distressed.

BACKGROUND: Nothing dramatic has changed in her environment. We recently bought a loaf of white bread and have been feeding that for about 1.5 weeks. We also started to add raw apple cider vinegar to the water at 1Tbsp/gal. as a natural wormer, about 2 weeks ago. I add a small layer of DE under the bed shavings in their house. The house is cleaned once every 1-1.5 weeks and never gets very dirty. They live in a tractor that is moved to fresh grass 1-2 times per week. I fed spent grain from brewing a batch of beer last week on Mon, Tues, and Wed. However, on Thursday I noticed the start of fine white mold so tossed out the rest. She lives with 8 New Hampshires and a dark morph Americana - all of whom appear healthy. The white chick has always seemed more aloof than the other chicks, and I started to think a couple weeks ago that she might be deaf, since she doesn't respond to the lawn mower like the other chicks do.

I don't know what to do for her or if this could be contagious to my layers. Please advise. Thank you,
Paige

 

[ten chicks]

Please help me with this emergency. I don't have enough chicken experience to diagnose.

PROBLEM: I have a just over 2 month old light morph Americana. Two mornings ago, she did not come down with the rest of the chicks as usual, then acted a little bit ataxic (wobbling, no clear direction) once she did join them. Her tail feathers were all pointed to one side as well. Since this incident, she acted normal until this morning. I discovered her this morning again up in the house, not having come down with the other chicks. She appeared to be dust bathing, but when I looked closer I found she couldn't stand up at all and she was struggling, not bathing. Her legs were straightened out in front of her and she was sitting on her bottom. I discovered reddish bruising on the backs of her legs, probably from all her struggling to get up. I held her at the waterer and she drank a small amount and ate a small amount. I gave her a small piece of bread and she was able to get to her feet and carry it around, but acted dazed and didn't seem to know where she was going.

PRESENTLY: I don't know what could be causing this, please help ! She is deteriorating rapidly. She's in her own box in the house now, but seems too painful to pick up. She screams and flaps her wings when I lift her up. Her legs are protruding forward (like they are stuck in place), not under her body like a normal sitting posture. I can stretch and bend her legs and this doesn't seem to cause her distress. No obvious lumps or bumps. Her eyes look a little bit sunken (the pink moist skin around them seems more prominent than normal). She is open-mouth breathing now, obviously distressed.

BACKGROUND: Nothing dramatic has changed in her environment. We recently bought a loaf of white bread and have been feeding that for about 1.5 weeks. We also started to add raw apple cider vinegar to the water at 1Tbsp/gal. as a natural wormer, about 2 weeks ago. I add a small layer of DE under the bed shavings in their house. The house is cleaned once every 1-1.5 weeks and never gets very dirty. They live in a tractor that is moved to fresh grass 1-2 times per week. I fed spent grain from brewing a batch of beer last week on Mon, Tues, and Wed. However, on Thursday I noticed the start of fine white mold so tossed out the rest. She lives with 8 New Hampshires and a dark morph Americana - all of whom appear healthy. The white chick has always seemed more aloof than the other chicks, and I started to think a couple weeks ago that she might be deaf, since she doesn't respond to the lawn mower like the other chicks do.

I don't know what to do for her or if this could be contagious to my layers. Please advise. Thank you,
Paige

Could be botulism,thinking this because of the mold on grain and bread. Some symptoms of botulism tremors,paralysis of body including breathing,feather pulling. You can purchase a antitoxin from a vet. I have read that giving 1 tsp of epsom salt dissolved in 1 ounce of water,and dropped into crop several times a day might help if caught early,but could also shock your bird if she has been ill for several days. I am not a vet,so do not know if this works or if botulism is the problem. I feel the best route to go is a vet.

 

[casportpony]

I really hate to say it, but it sounds like it could be Marek's. Either way, ten chicks is right, it's an emergency and your best bet would be to consult with a vet.

-Kathy

 

[guernsi]

Update: I let her rest for a few hours, then made up a mash (scrambled egg, yogurt, molasses, water) and she is eating it like a champ. I took her out so morale wouldn't get too low away from her comrades, and she stood up and walked around with them (slowly) ! She also drank a fair amount of water and had a normal looking bowel movement. I put her back into her temporary house in the dog kennel inside and she is insisting on perching on the edge of the cardboard box she is supposed to be resting inside. All good signs, but I don't want to get too hopeful yet. I would prefer botulism over marek's ... but sadly that would make this all my fault. I thought the spent grain would be a wonderful treat. I've read that a chick can recover from botulism if the toxin produced doesn't far outdo natural gut flora. Mareks, however, I wouldn't expect her to start walking again - right?

Does anyone think this is a good sign, or is it just one last hurrah before she gets even more sick? Just a few hours ago, she didn't look like she would make it through the evening.

Thank you Kathy, and Ten Chicks.

 

[ten chicks]

Update: I let her rest for a few hours, then made up a mash (scrambled egg, yogurt, molasses, water) and she is eating it like a champ. I took her out so morale wouldn't get too low away from her comrades, and she stood up and walked around with them (slowly) ! She also drank a fair amount of water and had a normal looking bowel movement. I put her back into her temporary house in the dog kennel inside and she is insisting on perching on the edge of the cardboard box she is supposed to be resting inside. All good signs, but I don't want to get too hopeful yet. I would prefer botulism over marek's ... but sadly that would make this all my fault. I thought the spent grain would be a wonderful treat. I've read that a chick can recover from botulism if the toxin produced doesn't far outdo natural gut flora. Mareks, however, I wouldn't expect her to start walking again - right?

Does anyone think this is a good sign, or is it just one last hurrah before she gets even more sick? Just a few hours ago, she didn't look like she would make it through the evening.

Thank you Kathy, and Ten Chicks.

Hard to say,but eating and trying to walk are positive signs. Yes, if the amount of toxin ingested was small,then recovery is possible. Molasses and epsom salts are used to flush out toxins in body. I hope she recovers.

 

[guernsi]

Thought an update was due here, little Boobicous is doing great ! We fed lots of yogurt with live culture and some molasses dissolved in warm water. She came around after a few days and has been overcoming weakness for the last couple of months. She seems to tire more easily than the other chickens (spends a lot of time sitting down), and doesn't seem to learn as quickly as the others. But all in all, she's a sweet girl, has begun laying like the others, and appears to be happy and healthy ! Thank you for your support !

 

[Nambroth]

I'm so glad she is doing better!

To answer your question from a few months ago, Marek's does not follow any rules and sometimes those that develop paralysis will go on to walk again and seemingly 'recover'. Such birds seem to be immune-compromised though, and may do well for a while, but go downhill again. Some will slowly "waste".. some develop other symptoms down the line (such as ocular problems). Some seem okay! It's a very frustrating disease because it doesn't always act the way we would expect. I truly hope that it was a temporary ailment, but if she continues to be slightly 'off', it may be wise not to rule out Marek's entirely... I say this not to scare you, but so that you can make informed decisions if you ever plan on bringing new birds in, or selling/giving away birds. The rest of your flock seems okay, yes? Have any of them ever been vaccinated to your knowledge?

Avian Lymphoid Leukosis can also present the way you described above. This is a disease that can be spread vertically (through the egg), but diagnosis is difficult without a blood test.

It sounds as if you are doing well, just keep an eye on things, and be alert to changes in behavior to indicate health problems in your flock.

 

[guernsi]

Re: Nambroth

Thank you for your response. I am a little surprised to think about Marek's again, as I was hopeful that ship had sailed. But I see where you are coming from. The only thing to do is watch and wait. I'm very in tuned with my birds so tend to notice early on when someone is not feeling well. So far, she seems to feel fine. She just seems a little slower than the other birds, as in, doesn't get it. Isn't quick enough to get to the treats unless I single her out, etc. But other than being a little dim-witted, I haven't noticed anything else that is off. She was the last to start laying eggs, but not far off from the other Americana. And both Americanas do seem to have the more aloof personalities.

To my knowledge, none of the birds have been vaccinated for Marek's. I do wish the feed stores would at least make an effort to educate people about these issues. I had no idea that chickens received vaccinations when I purchased my chicks, or that there was an option.

I'll keep watching them. I'm going to keep feeling good for now, since everyone seems happy and healthy ! (Except the rooster and I....doing battle...)

 

[Nambroth]

Ah, so she is just slow-minded then, and not slow in movements and such? I would still be watchful but I would probably say the risk for Marek's is pretty low, then. Perhaps the illness or problem she had earlier was unkind to her brain. I have a chicken that is sort of like that. She had so many problems when she was developing that she's a little brain-addled!

 

[guernsi]

Re: Nambroth

It is difficult to separate the two - slow in mind, vs. slow in body. I definitely know she is slower mentally. And her physical slowness seems to result from this, as she is always last to come when called, and last to realize something exciting is happening (like at treat time). She just seems to take a lot of time to process things. On the other hand, she does spend more time than the others sitting down as though she is resting. But again, this could just be mental, it is tough to tell. I thought of one more difference - she seems to drop feathers much more than the others.

I have had a couple of white animals (and have seen a lot working in a veterinary hospital) - cats, dogs, and now this hen. I don't know if you have any thoughts on this, but in my experience, white animals always seem to have more health issues than others. I have to wonder if this plays into Boobicous' issue.

Maybe she's just a little "slow" like your hen who had developmental problems. I love her none the less !