help for a newbie! sick hen

[whitetrashhorseranch]

I feel terrible! I just inherited some chickens (abandoned by neighbors) a couple months ago. Because of wild life attacks they had to no longer be allowed to free range, and seeing them peck each other I assumed this new boredom was the cause of a couple of the hens losing feathers. But about two weeks ago a hen suddenly died (not one of the two who had significant feathers missing). A friend with more experience said the others with feather loss looked sickly. Since then I have been dusting diatomaceous earth in the run and on the hens in case of mites (I don't see evidence). Also been giving them ACV. I had thought all the hens seemed to have begun looking perkier, but today the one with the worst feather loss was acting very dull, fluffing it's feathers and hunching down. Also it had a poopy bottom (no blood, but there is evidence of one or so hens having diarrhea). I am at a loss as to what to do next. The symptoms which I didn't.recognize have been going on for weeks, and most of the flock seem unaffected, but only 4 of 8 seem to be laying. Could it be sour crop? I have grit free fed on the side, should I mix it in?

 

[chooks4life]

A lot of chook diseases share symptoms or have hidden symptoms which makes it difficult or impossible for even experts to diagnose from sight. Don't feel bad, there is every chance they either came with disease or caught it from the ground where you are --- neither of which is your fault.

Some will scold you for not using antibiotics and so forth immediately but the fact is you would most likely lose some even if you did. I use natural methods and sometimes cop earfuls from some people who don't, but then they see my flock's survival rate and health compared to theirs and start changing their methods. They usually mean well but are often afraid to go natural because they've had commercial pharmaceutical propaganda drummed into them from a young age, so they think drugs are the only way. You should do whatever you feel is right; if you think antibiotics are the only quick fix that stands a chance then make your choice and don't feel bad. If you want to try natural methods, then do that and don't feel bad. Since the disease is already advanced, it's time for serious measures.

Personally I find it's harder to take a not-so-naturally reared chook and get it to the standard of health that a naturally reared chook exhibits. It's often easier to keep them on the lacking diets they were raised on, because when you put them on a healthier diet they go through a sudden detox and their body puts all its meager resources into swapping its original 'building blocks' for healthier ones, which can take a year, and a sudden detox can be fatal. It is often easier to treat unnaturally reared birds with unnatural medicines. I would treat them naturally and take whatever losses come.

I'd give them freshly minced or crushed raw garlic, as much as they want to eat, and other herbs like rosemary, sage etc in their feed. Oregano's a good one too, I haven't used it much but it's got the right properties to help combat disease. Raw apple is great for stopping diarrhea, and I'd guess if diarrhea was going to cure their issue through elimination it would already have done so, therefore it shouldn't be an issue to put a stop to it. Yoghurt's good if unsweetened, and agricultural lime (the sort they feed to animals as well as use to break up clay soils) is good to have on hand both to kill parasite eggs and diseases in the soil.

I don't know what's wrong with them but it could be so many things. It helps to list every difference you can see; also what color the poops are is relevant. If you had to rate them on a scale of 1 to 10, with 10 being water, what are they? Also what color faces do they have? Red? Pink? Pink in the middle with white around the edges? Are they squinting or are their lower eyelids creeping up, or do they look bright eyed? Could it just be cold temperatures making them hunch? Not that it sounds like it after a death! I don't think it's sour crop. I wish this site had a search engine for symptoms, where you can fill in a whole series of fields and it'd drag up the most relevant results... Anyway, best wishes with your flock.

 

[Irishhenman]

To me it sounds like a bad case of lice and mites, give every one of your birds a good dusting of lice and mite powder and give the house a good clean out and spray in with a mite and lice liquid. Keep giving them ACV and try some crushed garlic to improve their immune system. Isolate both of the very bad birds from the flock to prevent further spread and damage.
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In response to the above comment on natural remedies etc, when you are sick you go to the doctor, they will usually prescribe you a medicine to make you better. Why should it be any different with a chicken. Also, all herbs and plants will contain drugs, pharmaceuticals are just concentrate versions of many of these drugs that are found naturally. I am not against using things like ACV and garlic, or yoghurt to improve a birds immune system as long as a bird has also been treated for any diseases or problems with proper medications. Pharmasutical companies spend millions to make and come up with these medicines, and to prove that they work, so why would anyone not use them when they are needed.

 

[chooks4life]

In response to the above comment on natural remedies etc, when you are sick you go to the doctor, they will usually prescribe you a medicine to make you better. Why should it be any different with a chicken.

Because man made pharmaceutials frequently have side effects which can be worse than the disease they treat. Is why. Whereas natural ones don't have these side effects. Nobody does this natural 'gig' for the fun of it, let me assure you. It's a choice born of necessity. And no, when I am sick I do not go to the doctor. I use natural remedies. Many people do. I can personally say garlic's saved my life. I've been a skeptic too, I've exhaustively tested the remedies I recommend. I didn't accept anything at face value, and while I value science, I know to take it with a pinch of salt. Often a pretty large one.

There are entire cities of people who use natural remedies exclusively, in fact in some parts of the world it is still accepted as being the best way, and in parts of the world that use man made drugs, there is a growing push by patients and doctors alike to return to using more natural methods. Some doctors are behind the times, but more and more modern research is emerging which proves that medicine should be holistic; treat through diet as well as with any surgeries needed, etc... Not just pharmaceutical drugs. Modern medicine has its place and potentials, even though it's taken many a wrong turn as probably every field of medicine has in its time; but natural medicine has an even more important place because if an organism is fed correctly, most disease cannot take hold.

I'm not advocating just going cold turkey on normal mainstream medicine; notice I did make allowance for antibiotics possibly being a quicker fix choice. It's the side effects that I wouldn't want to have in my animals. Some antibiotics permanently destroy intestinal flora and fauna that are necessary to living a long life. Some harm the liver or other organs, often permanently. The natural sources of the drugs used is gentler on living organisms because in its natural form it arrives in the correct form and in the company of all the other vitamins, minerals, enzymes, acids, etc needed to process it correctly; once you separate it and process it by most of the methods used, it is no longer safe and acts differently in the body. It's as simple yet as profound as the difference between raw milk fresh from a cow being fed to a calf, and raw milk fresh from a cow being boiled then fed to a calf; the first way it thrives, the second way it dies.

There's a lot of new studies coming out in the news and mainstream media proving natural remedies weren't just 'old wives' tales' --- like, for example, garlic is more powerful an antibiotic against many bacteria and viruses than man made antibiotics; it can kill bacteria and viruses that they can't touch. All without side effects. It contains Allicin among many other natural dynamic antibiotics and other compounds which make it a powerful medicine. It's not known as 'russian penicillin' for nothing. It doesn't allow immunity to build up because the active antibiotics are formed differently every time from the enzyme reaction of crushed or cut garlic, whereas stable, unchanging man-made antibiotics are not only quickly irrelevant to viruses (etc) but help develop even worse, stronger 'super bugs' as I'm sure you have already heard. And they also have side effects in the body which can cause permanent harm.

Also, all herbs and plants will contain drugs, pharmaceuticals are just concentrate versions of many of these drugs that are found naturally.

No, they're rarely just 'concentrate' versions, they are usually synthetic and contain additives, and if they are just extracts they've almost always been over-processed or otherwise unnaturally altered. They are no longer just 'concentrate' versions. Our bodies (and our animal's bodies) cope with the natural version but can be damaged by artificial versions.

I am not against using things like ACV and garlic, or yoghurt to improve a birds immune system as long as a bird has also been treated for any diseases or problems with proper medications.

Natural medicines can and do treat diseases and problems; they are in fact proper medications by definition; I'm speaking from experience in this matter. I often treat condemned animals successfully, after 'proper medications' have failed. But it's harder to treat an animal that's already been treated with 'proper medications' because they do so much harm as well. Much easier to treat an animal that's been reared with natural methods.

Pharmasutical companies spend millions to make and come up with these medicines, and to prove that they work, so why would anyone not use them when they are needed.

Just think about that for a minute... They spend millions to make them and 'prove' that they work. Big business. Of course they are invested, and it's not in living creature's health; they are invested in our illness. Please, dig a little deeper, check out their studies that were used to determine that they 'worked'. What you will find will shock you. They word these studies like an incompetent lawyer, with surprisingly transparent doubletalk, white lies and implications, because of those millions you spoke of, which are actually billions, probably trillions by now; they have huge advertising power and advocate drugs known to cause all manner of horrific side effects including psychosis in kids and newborns, and the likes. Treat the common cold! Side effect: insanity. That one was all over the media recently. That one was proven. It's not alone, there are many examples. But their advertising prevails. Surely you know someone who takes high blood pressure medication; please, read the label and google the side effects. Shocking. You can access the drug maker's own websites where they will tell you better than I ever could the actual effects of their 'proper medications', their drugs which you trust. Don't believe me, by all means, find out for yourself! Don't bother to listen to their ads, though, obviously that's propaganda. Read the fine print.

When pharmaceuticals first started it was more or less lawless and they would hire any 'scientist' to make 'studies' proving natural remedies, their biggest business competition, didn't work. They would resort to all sorts of desperately biased and skewed and deliberately falsified studies to 'prove' this so they could advertise it, get nations to stop treating disease the way they always had, and start using expensive pharmaceutical drugs and concoctions instead. You can access some of these old studies for a good laugh. Modern ones are just sad. We have a disease driven industrial system that thrives off our suffering. It's all profit driven, not philanthropic. Many of the professionals in it are indeed well intentioned. But when these times become history, future people will be shocked at our barbaric 'modern' medicine. All through history, every civilization thought its science and medicine were perfect or near so. As always, time will tell and future generations will laugh at past ones. Our time is no different.

 

[Irishhenman]

You are entitled to your opinion and I am entitled to mine, lets just agree to disagree on this one

 

[realsis]

I agree she needs a good dusting for mites and lice! DE will NOT effect the mites. You can actually loose a chicken if the infestation is bad enough. I'm not getting into a argument about natural vrs chemical I'm just saying use what works and I know the chemical works! If you got a nasty case of mites I
wouldn't fool around. I'd treat her immediatelly with
chemical! I don't mean to offend the naturalist who
also responded on this site I'm just saying I agree
with irishhenman here. We are all in titeled to our
own opinions and for chooks4life please don't reply
with how evil the pharmaceutical company's are! I
respect your opinion please respect mine.I believe there is a time for natural remedy and a time for chemical remedy. So to chooks4life let us also agree to disagree and leave it at that. This is not a place for arguments or rants. Let's just say I have my opinion and you have yours and PLEASE leave it at that! Now back to the bird. I really do urge you to treat her soon before the infestation gets out of hand. I hope this helps and wish you the best! Good luck and God bless!

 

[whitetrashhorseranch]

Arguments over natural versus conventional aside, all my hens are still with us this morning, however the one is acting poorly as ever. Because I had the supplies on hand for before I go to work this morning, I mixed up some yogurt with Acv and crushed garlic and added this to their mash. I kept some aside and tried to give some to the sick girl but she only pecked it a couple times, I think it may be too late for her but am hoping to get this worked out while all the others are freely eating and drinking and thus easy to medicate. I had also inherited some poultry dust from the neighbors that I sprinkled on as many as I could (these are not friendly hens). I am working on figuring out how to accomplish a full bedding change asap. The have been in a wood chip type bedding I get for free, I had already planned on changing them over into a sand run, that will be pushed up now if at all possible to this weekend and I will get some of the mite treatment you had mentioned. As far as diarrhea/poop colors I see yellowish greenish brown diarrhea as well as green solid poop. I am feeling very overwhelmed and at a loss with what to do, the time o have for these girls each week is very limited. Thank you for all your information and support.

 

[whitetrashhorseranch]

As a side note I really have no way to separate the sickest, at least not for more than a couple hours at a time. And looking back this has been so ongoing really doesn't seem like it would be much help anyways?

 

[Irishhenman]

Mites and lice are like that, your hens will die if they are left to be infested, It really only takes a minute to dust over each bird and an extra ten minutes while you are cleaning the house to get rid of most of them

 

[whitetrashhorseranch]

as another note I am planning on also picking up some antibiotics to try. normally I am a proponent of the natural treatment and I myself do not typically go to the doctor in till I have tried everything that I can. however I cannot feel what the chickens are feeling and its so far at this point I am going to go to antibiotics, in some cases you do just have to. what is it that I should get exactly?