Help Goat with Urinary Calculi

Discussion in 'Other Pets & Livestock' started by Chuckfriedrice, Apr 13, 2014.

  1. Chuckfriedrice

    Chuckfriedrice In the Brooder

    We have a male pygmy goat around 2yrs he has all the symptoms . I know the vet is the best course , Its Sunday and Everyones closed ! First thing in the morning where calling the vet . Is there anything to help him ? Hes Up and moving , eating hey . He is barely peeing but it is semi drizzling . I know Ammonia cloride is the way to go but we need it now and weve tried the local stores that might have it .Are feed stores are closed I will hit them up 1st thing in the morning after talking to the vet . Any Ideas?
     
  2. H Diamond

    H Diamond Songster

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    Well, a lot of blockages occur in the end of penis in the urethral process. If your guy is blocked there, it's as simple as snipping that little bit off. If you're not familiar with male goat anatomy, google should produce some nice pictures for you. If you don't want to try and find the blockage yourself tonight, you can give him some banamine to reduce the inflamation at the blockage site until you get him into the vet. Unfortunately, there just isn't a lot that can be done without a vet helping,
     
  3. Stacykins

    Stacykins Crowing

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    Urinary blockages are basically a veterinary emergency. Either bring him to the vet, or bring the vet to him if he or she does farm calls. Absolutely give him banamine if you have it, and if you don't, get a bottle from the vet. That is the #1 painkiller, it is basically ibuprofen for goats (because it is an NSAID like ibuprofen) that has a 12 hour duration.

    In the meantime, giving him the ammonium chloride orally OR ascorbic acid (vitamin C) is what you need to do, but if you can't get it, then you have to improvise. Have you ever heard of Fruit Fresh? It can be used when canning fruit, and is literally vitamin C in powdered form. Keeping a bottle of hand for your goats is a smart thing to do, and it can be found in the canning section of basically any store. Giving him some apple cider vinegar or lemon juice orally can also be done if you have that, but he probably won't like it. They key is something acidic.

    To help prevent the calci in the future, some people add a little apple cider vinegar to their goats' water on a daily basis, mostly for bucks or wethers.
     
  4. H Diamond

    H Diamond Songster

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    When you get the emergency taken care of, we'll need to take a look at your feeding regimen to see if we can't keep this from happening again.
    Let us know how your boy does!
     
  5. Chickerdoodle13

    Chickerdoodle13 The truth is out there...

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    I highly caution people against doing this. Male goat anatomy is pretty tricky, which is why they tend to get blocked so often. There's lots of twists and turns down there that are internal. Additionally, ay type of surgical procedure like this without anesthetic can be pretty cruel for the goat.

    Hopefully by this time you have been able to get him to the vet! Usually, they catheterize the animal to release the urine, then make a decision about potential surgeries. One of the surgeries I've seen most commonly done in blocked goats is taking the urethra and redirecting it in the direction and orientation of a female's.
     
  6. H Diamond

    H Diamond Songster

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    I wasn't talking about anything in depth, just the little end, the part that narrows down, the urethral process, that allows them to spray the pee all over themselves. I've never had a vet use any anesthetic when they snip that little bit off.
    It may be different in other arts of the country. Here, I have to be the vet for 90% of what gets done with my goats, so I may take a different perspective on things too.
     
  7. Chickerdoodle13

    Chickerdoodle13 The truth is out there...

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    Some vets don't use anesthetic, or use agents that paralyze the muscles to prevent movements, but do not use any analgesic. It just seems cruel to me when a local anesthetic like lidocaine is about one cent per mL. I know for a while in horse castrations, vets were using succinyl choline, which is a muscle paralyzer, but does nothing to alleviate pain. This is now considered inhumane and vets could lose their licenses for doing it, yet some still use it in their practices. I'm certainly not criticizing your vet, but my personal feelings on the subject is that I want to use some sort of anesthetic (yay for local anesthetic!) in any procedure I do. We've been using Lidocaine in many of the recent large animal procedures I've done.

    If you have a good understanding of antibiotics, it is do-able, but not advisable. The problem is that if the blockage is further up the urethra, like say in the twisty sigmoid flexure, cutting off the tip of the peni.s can cause more issues than it may help. Additionally, giving an NSAID and performing a "surgery" on an animal can cause all sorts of other issues.

    I definitely understand having to resort to home remedies when you don't have access to a vet. It just makes me cringe because I've seen so many animals come into the clinic with issues that well-meaning owners tried to fix. Then these animals have not only a primary issue, but also a secondary issue that can complicate things.

    ETA: I am looking up the procedure now to see what the steps are just in case I am off in the procedure I am thinking about.

    ETA#2: I looked up the procedure and it looks like the two most common methods of anesthesia in these guys for this is diazepam (valium - works as a sedative) or epidural anesthetic. It looks like you could also use general anesthesia as well, but it's not a terribly difficult procedure. I don't know if anyone is interested, but here is a nice paper about the procedures. http://c.ymcdn.com/sites/www.michvma.org/resource/resmgr/mvc_proceedings_2014/holcombe.pdf
     
    Last edited: Apr 14, 2014
  8. H Diamond

    H Diamond Songster

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    Ohh, that was a fun paper to read, thanks for the link!
    I love lidocaine also, lol. I've been looking into using it when I disbud my kids. Just haven't had the opportunity to work with my vet on that yet. But that's another topic, lol.
    I think with the snipping of the urethral process, the injection would be about the same pain as the snipping. However you would have the benefit of continued numbness for a bit afterwards which would be nice.
    Hopefully this guy will just have the UC at the end and it will be easy and over with quickly.
     
  9. Chuckfriedrice

    Chuckfriedrice In the Brooder

    I took him to the vet today after doing a urine sample and an xray he doesnt think theres a calcium blockage .. He said the bladder looked clear and there is a bump in the urethra. Since he is peeing eating and drinking the vet gave antibiotics and said just to watch him. Giving him anesthetic and going in to see what it is , would be worse and could cause more damage . Are feeding habits have already been changed . I think we were giving way to much feed and not enough hey.
     
  10. cassie

    cassie Crowing

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    Plenty of hay and water is important for goats. However unless they are in milk, growing young stock, or pregnant they do not need grain.
     

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