Help!! Marek's Disease??

[seminolewind]

Gosh, you know, Marek's used to follow the rules! I think. Looks like all the rules went out the window. Since it looks like every illness or not, I think anyone's best bet is to treat them for whatever bothers them , meds or vitamins.

The other thing I noticed is that I have 2 chickens that don't do well in the heat. One gets disoriented. She couldn't find the ramp going into the coop one day. So those 2 get dunked in water to keep them a bit cooler. I guess I'm rambling but the heat can really get to them and make them look like they have an ailment.

 

[Haunted55]

Gosh, you know, Marek's used to follow the rules! I think. Looks like all the rules went out the window. Since it looks like every illness or not, I think anyone's best bet is to treat them for whatever bothers them , meds or vitamins.

The other thing I noticed is that I have 2 chickens that don't do well in the heat. One gets disoriented. She couldn't find the ramp going into the coop one day. So those 2 get dunked in water to keep them a bit cooler. I guess I'm rambling but the heat can really get to them and make them look like they have an ailment.

No you aren't rambling Seminole, you're spot on as usual. Look, maybe I have a 'legs up' on this, but I have severe problems with my back and the sciatic nerve. Does the heat bother me? Oh you betcha! Hardcore! Is it Marek's? No it isn't, but some of my symptoms are very close to what I have seen in my birds. Heat or cold can bring out all kinds of problems for me and for my Marek's birds as well. If I'm having a bad day because of the weather or the air pressure, it seems my survivors do as well. The offspring, control Group #1 and Control Group #2....not as much but still some indication they are 'seeing' the difference. I am so glad you brought this up, I've seen it, but was afraid to even mention it to anyone. It smacks of 'tin foil hat' kind of stuff. Doesn't mean it's not true, just that no one has done a study on it yet.

 

[John Clarke]

I've put her back with the others and she surprised me by getting back up the ramp to the coop to sleep. Then back down next day. I've decided to give them all vitamins and the probiotic as a precaution.
Mine have been through their first Aussie summer where we've had 40o (104oF) and they've coped with lots of water and shade. They're now going through their first Aussie winter and it's been raining by the bucket load.

 

[Haunted55]

This is great news! For myself and family, I've learned a lot about the need today for supplimentation. So much of our food just doesn't have the nutritional value it had just 20 years ago. I'm not going into a long dissertation on this, lol, just wanted to say that if our food is so lacking imagine what they do with animal feed.

 

[averytexans]

How fast does Mareks spread through a flock? I think I have one that might have it.. we have 3 ducks and 12 other chickens all 5 months and under

 

[Haunted55]

How fast does Mareks spread through a flock? I think I have one that might have it.. we have 3 ducks and 12 other chickens all 5 months and under

Isolate the bird you think may have Marek's away from the rest of the flock. Different building is best. I would need a lot more info before I can give you an answer to that that will help you.

I can give you some general information....First, from the age of the birds, I am guessing they all came together to you? Have they been housed together as well? If they have been and you didn't have them vaccinated for Marek's, it is already too late. IF and that's all it is right now is an if, you do have Marek's there, they've been exposed and will either become symptomatic or not.

The bigger concern here is why do you think you may have Marek's? What are the symptoms? How long has this been going on? What is their feed and any vitamins you may add? Any sneezing, coughing, nasty smell near their beak and head? How does their poop look, especially the one you think may be sick? Can you post a picture or pictures so we can "see" what you are talking about?

 

[esther5]

hi
i am losing my birds one at a time. i took the last one to the vet and she didn't think it had mareks. she said to confirm i would need to see the exotic vet and the expense of that was probably prohibitive....£140 for a consultation plus the cost of a post mortem ...i didn't ask.

anyway i have lost 8 so far. i bought 13 legbars and skylines from the same seller. so far only these have died. they were in quarantine for 3 weeks and during that time i lost one to sour crop.

over the following 10 weeks i have lost one at a time with various symptoms. one had some respiratory issues that started with one eye being shut. the other 6 have become lethargic, dropped wings emaciated most of that 6 have had ataxia all have been less than enthusiastic about eating and most of the time sit huddled. none have shown stiffness or the leg forward leg back presentation which seems odd to me if it is mareks.
the chicks were 5 weeks old when i got them and joined my mixed aged flock when they were 8 weeks.
none have grey eyes or funny shaped pupils.

today i noticed one of my 8 month old pekin has a spongy crop. it is huge. other than that she seems fine. have isolated her to treat her crop issue. i know mareks can cause this. she is not from the same seller.

does anyone with experience of mareks have any thoughts? i thought it seemed more like Lymphoid Leucosis but have since decided my victims have died mostly before the age when this surfaces. i know mareks can take varied forms but to have none show paralysis seems odd.

the birds were all treated with a vitamin tonic for a week a fortnight ago.
thanks

 

[Haunted55]

hi
i am losing my birds one at a time. i took the last one to the vet and she didn't think it had mareks. she said to confirm i would need to see the exotic vet and the expense of that was probably prohibitive....£140 for a consultation plus the cost of a post mortem ...i didn't ask.

anyway i have lost 8 so far. i bought 13 legbars and skylines from the same seller. so far only these have died. they were in quarantine for 3 weeks and during that time i lost one to sour crop.

over the following 10 weeks i have lost one at a time with various symptoms. one had some respiratory issues that started with one eye being shut. the other 6 have become lethargic, dropped wings emaciated most of that 6 have had ataxia all have been less than enthusiastic about eating and most of the time sit huddled. none have shown stiffness or the leg forward leg back presentation which seems odd to me if it is mareks.
the chicks were 5 weeks old when i got them and joined my mixed aged flock when they were 8 weeks.
none have grey eyes or funny shaped pupils.

today i noticed one of my 8 month old pekin has a spongy crop. it is huge. other than that she seems fine. have isolated her to treat her crop issue. i know mareks can cause this. she is not from the same seller.

does anyone with experience of mareks have any thoughts? i thought it seemed more like Lymphoid Leucosis but have since decided my victims have died mostly before the age when this surfaces. i know mareks can take varied forms but to have none show paralysis seems odd.

the birds were all treated with a vitamin tonic for a week a fortnight ago.
thanks

First off, can you do pictures. They make it easier for us to 'see'. There are tests that can now be done with a feather from a suspected bird. I will have to find the link for it and post it later.

Now are they showing any of the signs of coccidiosis? Lethargy does sometimes go along with Marek's but it's usually at the end. My birds' even though paralyzed in the roadrunner position, one leg forward, one back, were happy and bright right to the end. No lethergy, just no way to move. marek's is infamous for allowing secondary infections to assult the birds. respiratory, cocci, especially the coccidiosis. We were just talking about this on another thread and I have since found documentation proving that Marek's stops the bird's natural ability to ever become immune.

A vitamin tonic, I take it this is a regular multi vitamin? What you need from the sounds of it is a Super B Complex vitamin pill, crushed and added to a gallon of water or whatever the equivelent is there. It's the Bs they need right now. Not sure what you have available there but you want a vitamin that is all of the Bs in a fairly high doasge. The Bs are water soluble so they aren't a problem unless these birds are totally imobile.

Have you given an antibiotic at all? It sounds like this might be a good idea about now. Again, no clue what you are able to get there.

From what you've described so far, I don't think it's Marek's either. I could be wrong but let's start with the simple things first. Check their poop...what does it look like? Is it normal green with white cap? Is it runny and kind of a mustardy color? Is there blood? If any of this is true along with the huddling, I would say coccidiosis. This will cause emaciation as will internal worms. It will also put them off their feed as they feel miserable. Think of humans with food poisoning, 'bout the same. Corid, brand name or amprolium, the drug is what you would want for that unless you still have birds showing respiratory symptoms and then I would go right for a sulpha drug. I use Di-Methox, brand name or Sulmet, again brand name. If it's internal worms you need one of the wormers that will take care of them all. Here I use Safeguard for sheep, which is fendazole. I realize you do not have the ability to get the drugs as we can in the US. If you have a Vet who is willing to work with you,you may be able to get the drugs needed from them. If not, if you have a pet store that carries medications for fish, you can find the drugs there or order through a US business. I am so sorry I can't be more help with this. This yankee girl just doesn't know what you can and cannot get OTC in the UK. Either way, if you think it may be coccidiosis, don't bother with the vitamins yet. thiamine is the one needed by the coccidia to reproduce and you wouldn't want to give it to them while treating. Afterwards is soon enough.

 

[Haunted55]

https://www.backyardchickens.com/t/741957/not-an-emergency-mareks-in-the-flock/490#post_11582223

Post here, you will get at least 2 more extremely knowledgeable people respond here.

https://www.backyardchickens.com/t/793176/so-you-think-you-have-mareks#post_11427039

this one as well and if you haven't already, you can see what the lack of the Bs can and will do. Again...pictures please!

 

[esther5]

hi
i will attempt to send pictures. there isn't much to see though right now because the very sick one i culled 24 hours ago and the one who seemed 'off' yesterday evening is so far only slightly droopy wings both sides and he was slower to leave the shed when i let them out this morning. i wouldn't have noticed anything if i wasn't so paranoid in looking for signs as he hasn't deteriorated yet but i suspect another week and he will look on the brink of death.

thank you so much for your detailed response. to update further

all were treated with corid as that was my first 'idea' of what i was dealing with. no vitamins and corid at the same time. i did corid for 7 days in the water for all and ather a week a further 3 days for the sick one at that time before i decided it was a waste of time because there was no improvement.

there have never been bloody poops in any of the birds.

yes it was a vitamin tonic for poultry. i will look into vitamin b today.

i treated the entire flock with duramycin following the vit...i did it just in case it would help anybody.

when i took my very sick pullet to the vet, her poops i took in the vet agreed were normal but at times it had been diarrhoea like.
the flock have been wormed with flubenvet and i watched the sick chicks poops carefully and never saw a worm after the worming treatment, neither did i see any in the coop. i have checked for lice and at night for red mite and found none.

my chickens were my joy. now i wonder if they are all going to die one by one.naving nursed 8 to no avail i'm mighty discouraged.

i don't think it sounds like mareks or looks like the pictures. if it was coccidiosis i wonder why only one is sick at a time. they have been dying slowly for nearly 5 months. they seem to take too long to die for coccidiosis and a bit quick to be mareks. the symptoms are closer to lymphoid leucosis but they were too young for that when they started dying.

the vet i saw rang the exotic vets while i was there. their guess is it is a virus of some kind and either cull the flock and start over or wait and see as some may be immune. even they thought it not financially worth me seeing them because there is probably nothing they can do anyway...doesn't inspire confidence.

thanks again. will post on the other thread and read about the vit B