Help me understand the genes!

[house1917]

The confusion comes from "Birchen" being both the name of a gene, and the name of one color variety that has that gene.

The "Birchen" color variety does have the silver gene.
"Brown Red" or "Gold Birchen" or "Black Copper" would be some names of the color variety when it has the gold gene instead of silver.

I was using "Birchen" to refer to the gene E^R, not the other genes involved in the color variety called "Birchen." Yes, I was using it to explain the coloring of the chicks in this thread.

Yes, you are right about the barring.

But chicks with the E^R gene (Birchen) tend to have black down, while chicks with e+ (wild type) have the chipmunk stripes. When you cross the two, you get E^R/e+ and the chicks still look mostly black. They should not have chipmunk stripes. That's the part I was trying to point out.

People breeding Black Copper Marans would not want to introduce Birchen Marans (with the silver gene), just like people breeding Gold Laced Wyandottes would not want to introduce Silver Laced Wyandottes. It's the same basic pattern, but bringing in silver is not helpful when you are trying to get the right shade of gold or copper or red. (It might make sense in some rare cases, but in general it's easier to just keep the colors separate.)

Super interesting, THANKS @NatJ

Here's what I used with the calculator- Black Copper (roo) X Crele (hen) as best guess for one of the potential crosses: http://kippenjungle.nl/kruising.html?mgt=E:E^R/E^R,Mh:Mh/Mh&fgt=E:e+/e+,B:B/(B)

So the phenotype for adult birds- we could see the difference, but it wouldn't express the differentiation when they're chicks? Specifically, black/tuxedo chick for both cockerels and pullets?

Or, is the calculator 'off'? Or, and this is a huge possibility- I'm not grocking what you're saying above

 

[NatJ]

Super interesting, THANKS @NatJ

Here's what I used with the calculator- Black Copper (roo) X Crele (hen) as best guess for one of the potential crosses: http://kippenjungle.nl/kruising.html?mgt=E:E^R/E^R,Mh:Mh/Mh&fgt=E:e+/e+,B:B/(B)

So the phenotype for adult birds- we could see the difference, but it wouldn't express the differentiation when they're chicks? Specifically, black/tuxedo chick for both cockerels and pullets?

Or, is the calculator 'off'? Or, and this is a huge possibility- I'm not grocking what you're saying above

For that calculation, it lists the sons as "black patterned red -necked/birchen barred"
and the daughters as "black patterned red -necked/birchen"

So the only difference is the barring, which should show as a light spot on the head of the cockerel chicks when they hatch, and white lines across the feathers of the cockerels as they grow.

The chicks should all have a base down color that is black or maybe tuxedo. None of them should have chipmunk stripes.

(This is why OP's chick with chipmunk stripes, from a brown egg, has me puzzled. That should not be possible if the mother is pure for E^R, which a Black Copper hen should be.)

 

[house1917]

For that calculation, it lists the sons as "black patterned red -necked/birchen barred"
and the daughters as "black patterned red -necked/birchen"

So the only difference is the barring, which should show as a light spot on the head of the cockerel chicks when they hatch, and white lines across the feathers of the cockerels as they grow.

The chicks should all have a base down color that is black or maybe tuxedo. None of them should have chipmunk stripes.

(This is why OP's chick with chipmunk stripes, from a brown egg, has me puzzled. That should not be possible if the mother is pure for E^R, which a Black Copper hen should be.)

Got it!

It's a fantastic day if I can learn something new- especially if I can reuse it.

Thanks @NatJ

 

[nflchickengirl]

Updating at almost 4 months- apologies. I took pictures but then we lost one (the all black one), then had a hawk nesting above the coop so I couldn’t let them out, and all the old folks in my life got sick .

So the one we thought was a cream legbar roo pure, appears to be so

The other two hens are harder to get pictures of; I will do my best- I did put a pic of them all in the coop.