Help-Metronidazole water dose?

[Kiki]

I'm still reading...I am starting to figure out what blackhead is, thank you!
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Histomonas_meleagridis

What I haven't figured out yet is if you are going to have to constantly medicate your birds or if they become "immune" to it. (I don't think this is the case but I don't know yet.)

 

[Tereseb]

Prob worm them regularly.
Watch them.
My older turkeys have some 'natural immunity'.
If they develop 'yellow feces' or get a bit skinny, I will treat them with metronidazole again.
It seems if they go on to 'green' feces, their odds for survival are low, but not zero.
After 3 years the parasite level should start to go down.

 

[Tereseb]

I'm still reading...I am starting to figure out what blackhead is, thank you!
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Histomonas_meleagridis

What I haven't figured out yet is if you are going to have to constantly medicate your birds or if they become "immune" to it. (I don't think this is the case but I don't know yet.)

I've read that some farmers have bred natural immunity into their birds.

 

[Kiki]

I've read that some farmers have bred natural immunity into their birds.

Neat.

 

[Kiki]

Read this:
https://www.backyardchickens.com/threads/sick-turkeys-help-if-youve-seen-this.1271517/

 

[casportpony]

@casportpony is a better person to ask about blackhead and metronidazole dosage. She may check in here, but I think that she does not recommend putting it in the water, but to give each chicken an individual dose twice a day. I think also that 250 mg for every 5 pounds is about right, and that can be divided into 125 mg in the AM and the same in the PM. Some people say to just give it all once a day. Do you know a weight on the birds?

I give metronidazole once or twice daily orally, and I give about 25 mg per pound when I do, though there have been a few times where I have been too lazy and I just give a bird one or two tablets.

Okay, I just read back over some posts, and Casportpony and others recommend 250 mg per kilogram, which is every 2.2 pounds. So, that would be closer to 125 mg per pound daily.

Do any of my posts say that much? If so, let me know and I will go edit them.

How on Earth do you oral dose a bird without aspirating them?
I'm almost more comfortable giving an sub cutaneous injection.

https://www.backyardchickens.com/ar...dications-to-all-poultry-and-waterfowl.73335/
Let me know if there is any way I can improve that article and I will!

I'm using the fish meds that aren't in tablet form but in powder form. Any ideas here?
Should I Dissolve them into a few CC's then dose directly into the bird's mouth?

That is how I would do it.

That was my next question. Is Valbazen the generic or trade name?

Trade name for albendazole. It contains 113.6 mg albendazole per one ml.

That peafowl link explains the oral dosing well enough to do the deed safely, thanks!

That's a good one for sure.

I assume that the wormer paste is only good for ornamental birds and not for any birds meant for consumption? Correct? Or is there a safe waiting period before processing?
I don't plan on ever eating my Royal Palms but I was just wondering.

The paste can be used on any food animal. The withdrawal time depends on the amount given.

I'm also verifying that the dose of Valbazen that you are referring to is
11.36% oral suspension?

The dose of that that I would use treating a turkey is 0.08 ml per pound orally and repeat in 10-14 days.

I'm still trying to figure out if ''the horse paste' is the same thing?

The most common pastes in the US contain fenbendazole, ivermectin, and pyrantel pamoate. If you are going to give horse paste you want to use Safeguard or Panacur. The dose I use to treat cecal worms is 0.23 ml per pound orally and repeat in 10-14 days. For capillary worms treat for 5 consecutive days.

I do not think Valbazen comes in a horse type paste.
I believe it is made for cattle, sheep and goats, not horses.
I have never seen it in a horse paste.
And I believe that all Valbazen products are the 11.36%.
Valbazen Suspension for Animal Use - Drugs.com

I just looked and could not find Valbazen paste.

Since it is not labeled for poultry I am not sure on the withdrawal time but I would guess a week or so would be the norm.

One to two weeks would be my guess.

1 am still.looking up info RE all the great info given to me. Here is what I've found.
Valbazen is equivalent to the generic drug Albendazole 11.36%.
Also, 10% Fenbendazole is the generic equivalent of the drug that is the same as the 'Safe Guard' brand in both goat and horse wormer.
These drugs mention a withdrawal date for slaughter for up to 2 weeks in sheep and goats.
Since these aren't labeled for poultry nothing is mentioned for eggs.

If very low doses of fenbendazole are given there is a zero day egg withdrawal, but the amount mentioned in this thread are 50x more than the zero day amount.

 

[Eggcessive]

@casportpony I edited my post to say give metronidazole 250 mg per day for most full size chickens. I think it was poultrydvm recommended the high dose.

 

[casportpony]

@casportpony I edited my post to say give metronidazole 250 mg per day for most full size chickens. I think it was poultrydvm recommended the high dose.

Thanks!

I love poultrydvm and most of the info is quite good, but the most my books say is ~50 mg per pound, and that is a lot according to my vets.

Yes, the powder is meant for aquarium use so dissolved in water.

If I were going to use that I think I would try mixing one pack (250 mg) in 10 ml of warm water, stir well and give 0.9 ml per pound of body weight.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16404985

https://www.merckvetmanual.com/poultry/histomoniasis/overview-of-histomoniasis-in-poultry
From this Merck site, If I am reading it correctly (looks like it is not up to date though) frequent working helps...Is this correct?

Yeah, no fda approved drugs for it, and the drugs that are effective are banned for use in poultry.

Nitarsone used to be something that we could get, but I don't think it's been available since 2015. This was a feed additive:

I thought 'imidazole' was referring to drugs in the metronidazole class- which are anti-parasitics, and snti- bscteruakss working against anaerobic bacteria.

• Metronidazole, ronidazole, and dimetridazole are in the nitroimidazole class of drugs.
• Fenbendazole and albendazole are in the benzimidazole class of drugs.

Some people get lucky treating with just metronidazole, but the four vets I have seen all recommend treating with Baytril too, and that's because they almost always get a secondary infection that if not treated will kill them.

"Once access into the digestive tract has been achieved, H. meleagridis multiplies in the ceca and attacks the tissues of the cecal walls. As the disease progresses, a cheese-like, foul-smelling, yellow substance fills the ceca. This substance can vary in form from a hardened plug to more liquid in nature, and is composed of dead cecal cells and blood. In highly susceptible birds such as turkeys, the Blackhead protozoa then enter the bloodstream through the damaged ceca and are deposited into the liver, where they do even more damage, creating signature "bulls-eye" zones of necrosis (dead tissue). Occasionally, H. meleagridis also enters into other organs such as the kidneys, lungs, heart, and brain. Blackhead does not kill the infected bird, and the disease requires a secondary bacterial infection to be virulent and eventually fatal. Escherichia coli, Bacillus subtilis, and Clostridium sp. are some of the bacteria noted in the secondary infections that caused death (McDougald, 2005)."
Source:
https://attra.ncat.org/attra-pub/viewhtml.php?id=343

 

[Tereseb]

I have confirmed blackhead disease, by necropsy, in my Royal Palm turkeys.
I've lost several, mostly hens. Don't want to lose more.
I've separated all my turkeys from my chickens but have some turkeys with yellow or green feces. Or symptoms.
I've been treating their water with
metronidazole 750 mg/ gallon, using fish meds that contain prezaquel.
That hen improved. I just want to verify that dose. It seems high. I haven't been able to.find a source to verify that dose.
I don't feel comfortable oral dosing birds with a powder based med. That never seems to work out and I don't want my birds to aspirate.
Help appreciated!

 

[Tereseb]

I thought I'd post an update.
1. 7 days of metronidazole 750 mg/ gallon.
2. That may have been too high a dose.
3. I have my hen RP turkey separated along with a Tom that doesn't seem to be infected. She didn't do well alone and that's why he's with the hen.
4. She doesn't look sick any more and is lively, eating and her weight has improved. She even chases the male around.
5. However, her feces still look abnormal. Greenish. Not splashing green as when a bird is seriously I'll, but greenish mixed with normal consistency of stool. I hope this doesn't signal a liver issue.
6. I'm going to worm both these birds but I worry about gorking their livers.

I also uploaded an image of the stool of a bird that passed away. Note their green and sulfur color 'splashed' nature. IMHO this is a grave sign.