Help! my chicken stopped laying but keeps trying... not eggbound...

[Eggcessive]

There is a condition called false layer syndrome where the hen will go into the nest box and act like she is laying an egg, but the egg is laid internally. This can be possible after an early exposure to infectious bronchitis virus. Here is some info about this condition:
https://www.merckvetmanual.com/poultry/disorders-of-the-reproductive-system/false-layer-in-poultry

https://www.getcracking.ca/members/...an Veldman-Bronchitis Update False Layers.pdf

 

[amyduck]

MysteryChicken and Eggcessive, I have good news!!

Blondie passed her physical with flying colors! Everything looked good, she couldn't feel anything in her abdomen or cloaca, she was surprised to see her doing so well and that she'd made it through her mystery "neurological issue" - since the last time she saw her she said she would be dead by the end of the year! She didn't even mention Mareks... and I forgot to ask.

At any rate, we were still left with the mystery of why she wasn't laying and trying to hard to do so. The doctor said the illness could have thrown her system off, and she could still start up again, or there could be an egg stuck in her oviduct, or she could be laying internally, but she just couldn't feel it. There may be one more possibility, but I don't recall.

She said we could wait and see, or even do an ultrasound in the future. But since I made the hour long trip to this vet (and have saved gas $ since I've been working from home), I sprung for it. I didn't want to be left wondering and besides, I wondered if she was starting to get some tumors if she does have Marek's).

At any rate the vet saw all these eggs in a row and she thinks she will lay in probably 48 hours!! She thinks the illness threw her off but she's starting up again. Interestingly, she also found a cyst about the size of a large grape, that is likely from a second oviduct that normally is reabsorbed (I had no idea chickens only use one!)

It's too bad I didn't wait until next week, as she would have started laying, but all in all, I'm glad I took her in, though I feel badly to have put my girl through such a stressful trip and examination - especially because we weren't let into the building. I would have wanted to be with her and see the exam. Instead the vet came out and spoke to us in the parking lot. All in all, it went well!

 

[MysteryChicken]

Let's hope that she does lay an egg soon.
Yes, chickens only have 1 ovary, with lots of Ova/Eggs/Yolks.

 

[amyduck]

And thanks to both of you for your advice and support!

 

[amyduck]

Well.... we saw the vet on Thursday, and here it is, Tuesday night and still no egg
I just emailed the vet this evening... She still seems fine, I just wish I knew what's going on.

 

[amyduck]

Hi MysteryChicken and Eggcessive,

I wrote my vet and here's what she wrote back, along with my questions in blue. I really appreciate her long, detailed response!
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Hi Amy, there are a few possibilities to consider:

1) one is that she just hasn't ovulated yet, but may still do so and produce an egg (just on a timeline of her own)
2) instead of ovulating, the follicles could regress (shrink down) It sounded like you saw a large follicle in the ultrasound - and I'm just curious how big it was. I was imagining something the size of an egg yolk - but was it?
3) she has (or will) ovulate and the yolk fails to enter the oviduct, instead falling free within the abdominal cavity. This is called an internal ovulation, and when this happens, the yolk can stay whole or break and coat the other organs with yolk. This may cause no symptoms or may cause lethargy and abdominal discomfort for a period of time (usually patients respond well to anti-inflammatories). Internal ovulation can happen spontaneously, even in hens with a normal oviduct. However, it's more likely to be an issue in a hen with an abnormal oviduct. Since she laid for some 5-6 months with no problem at all, could the oviduct be abnormal? It seems much more likely that this was caused by whatever made her sick for those few days. You'd also mentioned anti-inflammatories when we saw you, and I'm wondering if given the possibilities, is there any point in giving her some now even if she seems fine most of the time? (admittedly, she is very difficult to pill, and just hates it. We were afraid she would get hurt in the struggle to get out of my hands - but if it could make a difference and could give her a limited number, I think we would...)

4) there is a problem with the oviduct that prevents normal passage of a yolk and normal packaging of the egg. This can be a functional problem (the oviduct doesn't work quite right) or a mechanical problem (there is a physical obstruction of the oviduct). Disease of the oviduct can take many forms--some of the most common are cancer, impaction, and infection. In most cases, surgery is needed to collect diagnostic samples and remove diseased tissue. Oviductal infections are rarely resolved completely with antibiotics. Would any of this been apparent in the ultrasound?

The ultrasound showed not only a cluster of maturing ovarian follicles, but also a fluid-filled structure further back in the abdomen (closer to her tail). This was most consistent in appearance with a cystic structure (at least 1 bilobed cyst, possibly 2 small cysts right next to each other). It could be a cystic right oviduct (which probably doesn't have much pathologic significance at this time), but it's also possible that it represents cysts on the oviduct or a fluid-filled loop of the oviduct. (I'm just wondering if you remember how close it was to the ripest follicle? i.e. could it have been close enough to obstruct the follicle from moving down the oviduct?) The difficulty is, it's not possible to know for sure without exploratory surgery, which allows you to visually inspect these organs, biopsy, culture, and (if appropriate) remove diseased tissue. Of course, we have to have solid justification for a surgery like that -- we have to be as certain as possible that there is a clear surgical target and that surgical intervention is required to help the patient.

In Blondie's case, I don't feel that there is indication for a step like that at present time. The ultrasound did not reveal a stuck egg or any evidence of oviductal impaction or of tumors (unless there is a partial impaction that is too small to be visible or early cancerous changes that are also too small to be visible). The ultrasound cannot rule out oviductal infection. Unfortunately, the only way to do that is with surgery to collect cultures from inside the oviduct (this cannot be done non-invasively). The ultrasound did not show any "lost" or internally ovulated whole yolks, but if there had been some internal ovulation and the yolk broke, you would not be able to see that on an ultrasound. So in order for us to understand more about what's going on in her body, excluding surgery, we need to observe for changes in the coming weeks to months both in terms of symptoms, whether eggs are produced (and if so, what they are like), and follow-up examination and ultrasound. If she resumes normal egg production, the likelihood of serious oviductal disease goes down considerably. If she does not, or if the eggs are abnormal, this increases suspicion of oviductal disease. Such disease is likely to progress and become more readily recognizable by physical exam and/or ultrasound.

If Blondie does not produce any eggs in the next few weeks, we have the option of repeating the ultrasound to see if the ovarian follicles are still present or have regressed. We would also be looking to see if any new abnormalities of the oviduct have developed or if an egg has formed somewhere along the way. We would also be looking for any change in the appearance of the cystic structure seen the other day. If she continues the same way, and seems to be feeling okay, and if we don't really think surgery is an option, would there be any point in another ultrasound?

Please let me know if you have any questions about all this. Needless to say, I am hoping that she will resume normal egg laying and not have further problems. But we need to be prepared for the possibility of progressive reproductive disease, which in some instances can be treated (or at least palliated) medically, but has the potential to require surgical intervention. Is lupron a choice here? If so, how long does that last, and what are the costs?

Last of all, I'm just wondering, we didn't talk about Marek's when we saw you. Do you still think she may have it? I know chickens can go into a kind of remission so maybe that's it right now.
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Well that's it for now, I'll update as we go along.