HELP PLEASE CHICKEN DOWN

[2manychickenz]

I have been treating my flock of young chickens 50-70 days old for coccidosis with corvid. They all seemed to get better, they've been on it for 9days. After 8 days one of my birds show severe symptoms, wobbly gait, flopping over, but not the bloody diarrhea. He is flat on his back now, I give him his medicated water with yogurt and boiled eggs which up until this morning he was able to eat on his own, but I had to hold him upright, wrapped in a towel to feed and water him..Been doing this for 2 days and I'm both saddened and amazed that he is still alive, tho barely. He is separated from the flock, under a heat lamp. What else should I do. Put the poor thing out of his misery? use a feeding tube? Is he going to recover, is this a case of "It gets worse before it gets better" should I expect some of the others in the flock to show these severe symptoms yet?
Thanks BYC,

 

[Haunted55]

Need a little more info please....were these birds vaccinated when you got them? What dosage of Corid have you been giving and how? Medicated feed? Vitamins?

 

[2manychickenz]

the dosage was 1 1/2 tablespoons per gallon. no medicated feed , the breeder said not to feed medicated, new as we are we did not even know to ask if any were vaccinated. Its a flock of copper marans, barred rock, and amaruaca, 1 orpington , the first death was one of the two orpingtons and they were the youngest....yes, to vitamins.. Its a cockerel down, one of the marans,. I bought all as straight run, so I thought we would end up a few on the table. That being said, he is a fighter, I suppose that's what they do. The orpington just up and died, a pullet of course. But concerned for the rest of the flock. Trying to find Sulmet, but the shelves in our area have evidently been hit hard and the product is back ordered indefinitely.

 

[Deb B]

the dosage was 1 1/2 tablespoons per gallon. no medicated feed , the breeder said not to feed medicated, new as we are we did not even know to ask if any were vaccinated. Its a flock of copper marans, barred rock, and amaruaca, 1 orpington , the first death was one of the two orpingtons and they were the youngest....yes, to vitamins.. Its a cockerel down, one of the marans,. I bought all as straight run, so I thought we would end up a few on the table. That being said, he is a fighter, I suppose that's what they do. The orpington just up and died, a pullet of course. But concerned for the rest of the flock. Trying to find Sulmet, but the shelves in our area have evidently been hit hard and the product is back ordered indefinitely.

Tablespoons or teaspoons? What type of Corrid, liquid or powdered?

If it is the 9.6% solution, the dosage should be 2 teaspoons per gallon. If it's the powdered, it should be 1/2 teaspoon per gallon.

I don't remember where I saw it, but I think that Sulmet is no longer being manufactured which is why it is now impossible to find. I could be wrong about that one, though.

 

[Judy]

Try adding some powdered milk to their feed, to help their gut recover from the illness. As they recover, some probiotic is also good. Sulfa drugs are very rough on their intestines, some tpes more than others.

Here is some more information on cocci:

https://www.backyardchickens.com/t/775739/blood-in-older-chicks-stool/0_20#post_11087272

https://www.backyardchickens.com/t/792579/just-found-a-dead-chick/20_20#post_11436103

http://thecozynest.com/understanding_coccidiosis.htm

https://www.backyardchickens.com/t/...m-feed-store-treat-coccidia/0_20#post_5851498

 

[Eggcessive]

I think the breeder may have told you the wrong dose for treatment--there are smaller doses for prevention, but you need 2 teaspoonsful of the liquid Corid per gallon of water. Do not use use vitamins or vinegar while you are treating. The corid works on blocking thiamine in the coccidia organism, so you don't want to feed that. After they complete the Corid, you can give vitamins. I hope you don't lose any more, but sometimes they can have this disease for several days before they show symptoms.

 

[Haunted55]

the dosage was 1 1/2 tablespoons per gallon. no medicated feed , the breeder said not to feed medicated, new as we are we did not even know to ask if any were vaccinated. Its a flock of copper marans, barred rock, and amaruaca, 1 orpington , the first death was one of the two orpingtons and they were the youngest....yes, to vitamins.. Its a cockerel down, one of the marans,. I bought all as straight run, so I thought we would end up a few on the table. That being said, he is a fighter, I suppose that's what they do. The orpington just up and died, a pullet of course. But concerned for the rest of the flock. Trying to find Sulmet, but the shelves in our area have evidently been hit hard and the product is back ordered indefinitely.

If this was a private breeder, chances are they haven't been vaccinated. You would have been told if they had been. Now, on to the Corid. the correct dosage is 1 tsp per gallon with the liquid 9.5%. 1/2 - 3/4 tsp per gallon powdered 20%. You've used too high an amount of the Corid and allowed some that are probably amprolium resistant to explode. At this point in time, the Corid is doing nothing but robbing the birds of thiamine and should be stopped right now. From the symptoms you first described about the only thing left is to get some Di-Methox into them or if you can't get that, use Sulmet. this is the hardcore stuff so please use the correct dosage or your birds will be messed up for life.The Di-Methox is 1/4 - 1/2 tsp per gallon for 3 days only. sulmet is 2 tbls. per gallon for 3 days as well. No more. With the sulpha you can give a vitamin supplement but no probiotics, yogurts or any milk product.

http://www.jefferspet.com/jeffers-livestock/camid/LIV/ca/135/

I can't get the Sulmet or the Di-Methox locally at all, so I order from the above link. While you are trying to find the medicine....you can give them buttermilk [thank-you Dawg]. This will help hold them until you can get it.

First off, this stuff happens, don't worry about it now, too late for that. I made a similar mistake last year. You and I will never make it again. Hard learning, but sometimes it's all we've got. A good way to think about what is going on with your birds right now....food poisoning in humans is a lot like this. The bugs that cause it in us attack the lining of the intestines and secrete a substance that basically liquifies the lining. Pretty close with the coccidia as well. This is where the blood is coming from. I would bet the cocci left in your birds is way down in the cecum and the Corid couldn't touch it there anyways. They will need the sulpha drug just like a human would need an antibiotic to get rid of it.

When you do get the Di-Methox or the Sulmet, you will want to wait 5-6 hours after taking the buttermilk away from them before you give it. If you can stabilize them with the buttermilk this will be fine. If you can't and you can get your hands on the meds. without having to order, I would just start in dosing. Me, I would count this as a half day, not a full one as the milk is going to mess with the absorption of the sulpha, even if you started at 4 am. I'm sorry...I do know what you are going through and I wish you the very best.

 

[ten chicks]

the dosage was 1 1/2 tablespoons per gallon. no medicated feed , the breeder said not to feed medicated, new as we are we did not even know to ask if any were vaccinated. Its a flock of copper marans, barred rock, and amaruaca, 1 orpington , the first death was one of the two orpingtons and they were the youngest....yes, to vitamins.. Its a cockerel down, one of the marans,. I bought all as straight run, so I thought we would end up a few on the table. That being said, he is a fighter, I suppose that's what they do. The orpington just up and died, a pullet of course. But concerned for the rest of the flock. Trying to find Sulmet, but the shelves in our area have evidently been hit hard and the product is back ordered indefinitely.

NO vitamins during treatment for Coccidiosis,interferes with the ability of medication to work,if giving vitamins,your chickens have basically been getting NO medication in their system.

 

[Haunted55]

NO vitamins during treatment for Coccidiosis,interferes with the ability of medication to work,if giving vitamins,your chickens have basically been getting NO medication in their system.

Amprolium is an antagonist of thiamine (vitamin B1). Rapidly dividing coccidia have a high requirement for thiamine. Amprolium has a safety margin of ~8:1 when used at the highest recommended level in feed (125–250 ppm). Because amprolium has poor activity against some Eimeria spp, its spectrum has been extended by using it in mixtures with the folic acid antagonists, ethopabate and sulfaquinoxaline. The primary use of amprolium today is for water treatment during clinical outbreaks.

Folic acid antagonists include the sulfonamides, 2,4-diaminopyrimidines and ethopabate. These compounds are structural antagonists of folic acid or of para-aminobenzoic acid (PABA), which is a precursor of folic acid. (The host does not synthesize folic acid and has no requirement for PABA.) Coccidia rapidly synthesize nucleic acids, accounting for activity of PABA antagonists. Although resistance to antifolate compounds is widespread, they are commonly used for water treatment when clinical signs are already evident. Diaveridine, ormetoprim, and pyrimethamine are active against the protozoan enzyme dihydrofolate reductase. They have synergistic activity with sulfonamides and often are used in mixtures with these compounds.

borrowed from The Merk Veterinary Manual. http://www.merckmanuals.com/vet/poultry/coccidiosis/overview_of_coccidiosis_in_poultry.html#v3340210

 

[Haunted55]

NO vitamins during treatment for Coccidiosis,interferes with the ability of medication to work,if giving vitamins,your chickens have basically been getting NO medication in their system.

There have been studies that show a vitamin supplement can be given with the Sulmet or Di-Methox as they are not true folate blockers. Similar, but not quite. I would do this on a bird to bird case. If I had a bird that was totally wrung out from the cocci, then yes I would give an vitamin along with the sulpha drug. In the case of a bird showing the normal symptoms of resistant cocci, was not at death's door, then you are right and they shouldn't be given the vitamins and risk having them not work completely.

I did have to make this decision last year with mine and did give vitamins to 4 birds that had no chance without them. 1 died from the cocci on day one of the treatment, but the rest healed and are still alive. I used the 4 day treatment with the Sulmet at that time.