help! probable cocci NEW QUESTION in last post PLS READ

[mamichi]

1) What type of bird , age and weight.
Buff Orpington, 17.5 weeks, don't know weight
2) What is the behavior, exactly.
Won't eat even her favorite wormies, moving slow, looks sleepy. Husband said she spat out (or vomited?) saliva when he picked her up.
3) Is there any bleeding, injury, broken bones or other sign of trauma.
no
4) What happened, if anything that you know of, that may have caused the situation.
nothing
5) What has the bird been eating and drinking, if at all.
Up until today bird has been eating and drinking fine. Normally eats starter/grower by Purina and she also gets access to our yard many days a week.
6) How does the poop look? Normal? Bloody? Runny? etc.
Looks like dark blood, all liquidy, not much coming out.
7) What has been the treatment you have administered so far?
nothing, I just noticed an hour ago
8 ) What is your intent as far as treatment? For example, do you want to treat completely yourself, or do you need help in stabilizing the bird til you can get to a vet?
Not sure, never have done this before.
9) If you have a picture of the wound or condition, please post it. It may help.
Bird looks healthy otherwise, nothing out of the ordinary.
10) Describe the housing/bedding in use
Bird is housed in coop/run with 9 other BOs of same age. Am using DLM with pine shavings in coop and sand in run. I also use food grade DE, but I haven't put anything new in coop for at least a week now.

The only other odd thing to note is that I feel a golf ball size squishy mass on her neck. I am assuming that is her crop and that it is empty?

Thanks for your help everyone.
M

 

[mamichi]

Do birds with sour or impacted crops have bloody stools? The lethargy and squishy crop sounds like it could be sour or impacted crop but I haven't read how the bloody stool could be related. Anyone???

 

[Judy]

Have you seen the poo chart? There is a lot of variation in poo that is normal:

http://www.chat.allotment.org.uk/index.php?topic=17568.0

Usually an impacted crop is very large and hard. Sour might be more logical for what you are feeling. I don't think bloody stools would have anything to do with sour crop. First thought for bloody stools is cocci, but there are other causes. Is your feed medicated, and if it is, with what? Has she been on this feed all along?

Also, what kind of worms do you give them, and where do you get them? Any chance she could have eaten something spoiled or toxic? Does she have access to compost? How does the feed smell? Any chance it has gotten damp or moldy? Can they splash water into the feeder, or does rain ever get to it?

 

[mamichi]

just one response?

Thanks for responding ddawn. To answer your questions- feed is not medicated and she's been on the same stuff since a few days old. It smells good and is not damp or moldy. No, they cannot splash water into their feeder.

I get the worms from my compost pile. Been giving the worms to them since they were little. No, they haven't been in the compost pile directly. There's always a chance they've eaten something toxic I suppose since they free range about 5 days a week and we have lots of mushrooms, plants, etc.

Also, the very sick hen is basically trying to poop pure blood out. So, "bloody stool" is not accurate I suppose. I have her isolated outside of the coop and have found another bloody poop from another bird in the coop.

At least the girls inside the coop all have an appetite.

I find lots of stuff about squishy crops or bloody poops while searching the forum, but nothing regarding both in the same bird. What gives?

I'm really feeling bad for my sick girl. Please help!

 

[ranchhand]

Quote:
Only because I have no ideas about what you're dealing with. Hope someone who knows will come along soon.

And technically, I am bumping your post which is not allowed.

 

[Judy]

I don't know what to suggest except to treat her with Corid for cocci, especially as they are on unmedicated feed. If you do this, treat all of them. I don't know that she has cocci, but it does cause bloody diarrhea, the treatment will not hurt them, and cocci can kill them.

It would be good if she would eat a little yogurt and cooked egg. A bit of applesauce would also be good, as would ACV in the water, though you may have to hold off on that if you can find Corid.

You can also treat most cocci with Sulmet but it is much rougher on them and her gut is obviously already in trouble.

It is also possible that the bleeding is not GI but coming from her reproductive tract, of course, in which case I doubt there is anything to do.

Yes, I wish some more knowledgeable people had responded, too, but Sunday night is a slow night here.

I asked about the snack worms because they carry one of the internal worms that chickens get -- but worms don't usually cause bloody stool, to my knowledge.

It may well be that she does not have a crop problem, but rather, poor appetite due to the cocci or whatever she has.

I'll give you a couple of links about worms and cocci. If she is bleeding that much from cocci, she is in trouble, and you would need to treat as soon as you can.



https://www.backyardchickens.com/forum/viewtopic.php?id=157516

http://www.shagbarkbantams.com/page7.htm

https://www.backyardchickens.com/forum/viewtopic.php?id=200698&p=2

https://www.backyardchickens.com/forum/viewtopic.php?pid=2525157#p2525157

 

[mamichi]

thanks ranchhand and ddawn, I am going to go offer some yogurt and apple sauce now.

 

[fordmommy]

Maybe you and I are dealing with the same thing. I have my question in this same section. Read my question about needing help for the digestive tract. See if that is like what you're dealing with and read how they are helping me. Maybe they are the same. Sour crop.

 

[mamichi]

I am going to assume the girls have cocci and am going to leave shortly to buy Corid. From what I've read, I give 9.5 ccs of the liquid in one gallon of water.

How do I get the really sick girl to drink water though??? She was not interested in the yogurt of applesauce last night. I have not been out there yet today. I'm nervous to find a dead chicken

If she is alive though, how do I get her to take the medicine? In that probiotic mash I've read about?

 

[tulie13]

If her crop is not going down overnight, you may have a "sour crop" and need to flush it. Isolate her from the other birds and give her a few hours to see if it goes down. If not, you need to treat for sour crop quickly.

Sour crop is USUALLY a fungal infection, but it doesn't have to come from rotten/moldy feed. A bacterial infection could also be present, and either or both could be causing severe stomach problems (blood in the poo).

If she has a sour crop, you need to handle that right away, because to even begin to address the possible bacteria problem in the gut she needs to be able to ingest food/liquids.

I'm a "self-proclaimed" expert on sour crop - fought with a chicken for 2 months with this problem - but I don't know as much about other bacterial/gut stuff. There may be an injectible antibiotic you could use for one, but without a real diagnosis you are spitting in the wind.

I'd focus on the crop first and see if you can get any of Glenda's good probiotic mash down the bird after getting it cleaned out...