help these horses!! this is crazy!! read this ad!

[Kassaundra]

Quote:
Burying the dead animal is for the peace of mind of the human not the well being of the dead animal, it is dead. Whether it is feeding insects or pets makes no difference to the dead animal. I see no problems w/ butchering for meat any animal horse included.

The medical points brought up are worth noting for sure for human consumption, there are many many people (myself included) that have serious pcn allergies, and if eating horse meat can produce a pcn allergy it seems it could certainly cause one. (pcn reaction)

A question for those who brought up the medical reasons for not butchering/eating horses, would you still object if they were raised using the same meds as beef cattle?

 

[SourRoses]

Quote:
Burying the dead animal is for the peace of mind of the human not the well being of the dead animal, it is dead. Whether it is feeding insects or pets makes no difference to the dead animal. I see no problems w/ butchering for meat any animal horse included.

The medical points brought up are worth noting for sure for human consumption, there are many many people (myself included) that have serious pcn allergies, and if eating horse meat can produce a pcn allergy it seems it could certainly cause one. (pcn reaction)

A question for those who brought up the medical reasons for not butchering/eating horses, would you still object if they were raised using the same meds as beef cattle?

I know some of my sentences run-on a bit... so I underlined the section that explains the purpose of burying them.... protecting people (and animals) from eating them instead of trying to make a penny selling unsafe meat.

I agree in that if the animal has been put down for a reason pertaining to it's health or future, and it was less of a pet and more an employee... (and the method of euthanasia wasn't an injection of course) there wouldn't be anything wrong with feeding it to other animals... except then we get back to the point that the meat is not safe. It seems just as unsafe to me for animals as it does for humans

To answer your question... I would have less objection to horses being eaten if they were actually safe for human consumption. I would have enormously less objection if the horses were cared for and slaughtered in a humane and horse-savvy manner.

After that... my objections would be private ones... I wouldn't totally despise someone who partook of horse-meat and talked of it, but I would sniff a bit... because my horse IS my pet... I'm closer to him and love him more than my dog... and I really love my dog.

 

[Baymule]

An old worn out horse, or lame, or otherwise useless horse used to have value. $200-$400 value. Now to some folks, that ain't much, but if you are the owner of that horse you can no longer ride or use, it is something to think about. Not everybody can keep a pasture full of pets. Then the "do-gooders" closed down the slaughter houses. Immediately the horse world was rocked by prices plunging to zero.

what do you do with a useless horse? My farrier told me it is now illegal to shoot your own horse to put it down because it is "cruel". So you must pay the vet $$$$$$ to euthanize the horse. Oh wait, did I mention you can't let it rot, use it for coyote bait or feed the buzzards on your own property because it is now full of posions and must be "properly" disposed of? In addition of paying the vet, now you must pay the land fill $200-$300 to take it.

Scenario: Hmmmm........Ol' Bessie is lame, can't ride her, gotta feed her another 5-10 years and I just lost my job. I don't have the $500 to euthanize her and have her disposed of and nobody wants her, so what to do? 1. let her starve. 2. open the gate and turn her out.

No matter how it goes down, Ol' Bessie is just as doomed as if she was on a trailer going to the slaughter house. There are no winners here.

And some of those rescues are worse hells than any slaughter houses. I'll probably get in trouble for that statement, but you gotta admit some real wacko hoarders collect animals of all kinds to save them and in so doing, overload themselves so that they turn out to be a worse fate than the poor animal was in to start with.

I have 3 horses, 1 mule and 1 donkey. 2 of my horses are 22 and 24 years old. They will die a natural death with me. I would never let them go. Ever. I am fortunate in that I can have my luxury of my horses, who are pretty much a hole in my pocket I dump money in. This past week, I worked for the farrier and chicken feed, and equine senior for one of my older horses. (the other old horse is roly-poly fat). Oh, and a new cell phone. Back to work tomorrow......sigh......

Not everyone can afford to feed a horse they can no longer use. In this economy, not everyone can afford the horses they already have. The problem is, nobody else wants them either. Reality sucks.

 

[Kassaundra]

Quote:
Burying the dead animal is for the peace of mind of the human not the well being of the dead animal, it is dead. Whether it is feeding insects or pets makes no difference to the dead animal. I see no problems w/ butchering for meat any animal horse included.

The medical points brought up are worth noting for sure for human consumption, there are many many people (myself included) that have serious pcn allergies, and if eating horse meat can produce a pcn allergy it seems it could certainly cause one. (pcn reaction)

A question for those who brought up the medical reasons for not butchering/eating horses, would you still object if they were raised using the same meds as beef cattle?

I know some of my sentences run-on a bit... so I underlined the section that explains the purpose of burying them.... protecting people (and animals) from eating them instead of trying to make a penny selling unsafe meat.

I agree in that if the animal has been put down for a reason pertaining to it's health or future, and it was less of a pet and more an employee... (and the method of euthanasia wasn't an injection of course) there wouldn't be anything wrong with feeding it to other animals... except then we get back to the point that the meat is not safe. It seems just as unsafe to me for animals as it does for humans

To answer your question... I would have less objection to horses being eaten if they were actually safe for human consumption. I would have enormously less objection if the horses were cared for and slaughtered in a humane and horse-savvy manner.

After that... my objections would be private ones... I wouldn't totally despise someone who partook of horse-meat and talked of it, but I would sniff a bit... because my horse IS my pet... I'm closer to him and love him more than my dog... and I really love my dog.

I don't raise horses so I'm not sure on this but something in the back of my head (I may not be remembering correctly) about not being legal to bury them they have to be burned?

There is a big difference in safe for human consumption and pet consumption.

The pet thing is cultural and mental. (Not eating horse b/c it is a "pet" animal) We regularly consume beef something horrific to an Indian (India, who view cows as both sacred and pets), other cultures consume dogs and cats, something we find repulsive.

Just b/c the majority of a people raise a certain pet animal doesn't mean they have the right to take it off the menu for other people. As long as your pet isn't on someones menu.

I truely feel sorry for those who do have to make those hard choices about any animal raised and concidered a pet, it would be heart breaking for them I'm sure. No one would argue the point that keeping a horse is an expensive and long undertaking, and economic circumstances can and do change. If humane slaughter of the horse is the persons best option, and then if that pets death can help the other pets of the family to supply food for them I see that as a better honor of the pet horse then just a wasted death.

 

[arabianequine]

A question for those who brought up the medical reasons for not butchering/eating horses, would you still object if they were raised using the same meds as beef cattle?

I did not bring up the medication reasons for not butchering horses for human consumption but all our pigs/cows/poultry etc....we raise for meat, we do not give medications, hormones etc to them for just that reason, that is one of the added benefits to raising your own meat, you know what they have been given.​

 

[welsummerchicks]

Quote:
Or not. Just because they aren't given wormers, doesn't mean they're healthy.

For one thing, they're likely to have worms.

I don't know what the French do - they raise horses for meat. The French meat horses I've seen were very healthy looking, they're cared for very well, but I don't know how the French farms that raise horses for meat, control parasites. My guess is that they have medications that are approved for meats and safe for humans to consume.

The horse wormers in the USA aren't necessarily harmful to humans, but they haven't been tested in humans in the sense of what a person would consume in the meat.

Ivermectin, for example, has been used to kill filarial and other parasites in humans - such as treating River Blindness. There are a number of parasites that infect humans and ivermectin works for them. Ivermectin doesn't cross the blood-brain barrier(unless a huge overdose is given) - so it has that safety factor which older medications do not.

And there are questions as to whether they might linger and kill beneficial parasites in the environment. If they linger, products that break down into harmless components could be produced, but then the products would have to be used by a certain date, or not get wet when shipped, or etc -w hatever breaks them down.

Ivermectin, for example, IS used in humans, but there have been no specific tests for exactly how ti would come through the meat, or in what amounts, or the other ramifications.

To some extent, the government does have the job of regulating what we eat, and I'm very glad they have that job.

I am not able to inspect meat when it is shipped into the US or butchered here, for example, so I'm glad someone does. Before the government inspected meat, a lot of people died of eating parasites in meat. There are rather a lot of diseases and parasites one can get from their food. And normally the US gov't also prevents pesticides and poisons from working their way into the food chain. Recent budget cuts have hampered their ability to catch every single incident, but they are still doing a lot in that area - the volume of food handled in the US is rather gigantic.

 

[zzGypsy]

Quote:
re: bury or burn - it depends on where you are. in San Diego county, CA, it was not legal to either bury or burn a horse carcass. nor could you have it butchered for your own use, or for feeding your pets, at least you are not going to find a butcher who will do it for you. the law would require them to do a full strip-cleaning of their processing area before and after processing it to prevent cross-contamination from the horse to whatever else they might butcher. and if the FDA were to know about it you can BET they'd be visted immediately and repeatedly by the FDA (both state and federal versions) to test their facility for any and everything they can think of. so you just can't get it done.

in SD, CA your one and only legal option for disposing of a horse carcass is call the knacker. for draft horses (which are what we have) that's about $800.

many areas in CA actually have ordinances that horse manure is treated as a "medical waste" and can't be disposed of in the dumpster either.

and you can't legally put your own horse down (or your dog either) with a bullet. but your vet may be able to. there is a narrowly arguable area where, if you have a pre-existing relationship with your vet, and you call them and say "horse is in distress" and your vet advises you to put it down immediately with a bullet because the vet cann't reach you in a reasonable time, you *may* avoid prosecution. that is, of course, provided you didn't discharge that gun in a prohibited area like, say, within city limits.

even vets and butchers are not immune from prosecution for using a firearm to dispatch an animal within prophibited areas, like Oceanside city limits... because their firearms ordinaces prohibit firing a gun, and do not make exceptions for vets and butchers. in general, unless you've got a neighbor with a grudge, they get by with it, but it's still not legal.

we have an 8yr old draft horse with chronic hip issues and digestive stones. we've had to do some pretty heroic things to treat him medically, and where we can afford to do so, and it is reasonable to ask the horse to tollerate the treatment, and there is a reasonable hope of a functional outcome, we've done so. but at some point the time will come where we're going to have to put down our 1600 lb pasture ornament.

I've had the conversation with the vet about how that will go... IF we can find a butcher who will come out and field-butcher him, and IF we have a freezer open, we now know how to properly dispatch him with a .45 after a phone call to the vet. he's agreed to back us if it becomes an issue (no small deal as it could be his butt and practice on the line also.) when that time comes, it seems right to me to give this beautiful and sweet animal the most rapid death possible (a bullet) and then not waste his remains. so what we can take from his carcass will feed our dogs.

we are in the process of moving our horses from CA to MO. in MO this whole process is much easier and I think much more sensible... where I live, you can back-hoe a pit to dispose of dead livestock. you can leave the carcass for the coyotes, although your neighbors may or may not approve and can call animal control if you do. Animal control may or may not do anything about it if they're called, but the worst that's likely to come of it is they'll tell you to get a back-hoe. you can put livestock down with a firearm if needed. You can shoot dogs attacking your livestock, but I don't know if you can legally put down a dog with a firearm. It's not unusual to use downed livestock, including horses, to feed your dogs - but I don't know if you can have them legally butchered. I've still got some things to learn about how things work here, but it seems a more sensible approach applies overall.

at any rate, I don't think I'd eat a pet horse I put down - for sentimental reasons aside from the wormer-and-drugs discussion, but I'd be much happier being able to use that meat for my dogs than having to waste it.

I do know that *lots* of horses are bought at the local auctions right now and shipped to canada or mexico for slaughter - that's a long and miserable trip for them. and for many of them that comes after already being starved to some degree. the horse auctions here have an incredible number of unwanted, unneeded, should-not-have-been bred horses going for less than the cost of 2 month's feed.

if there were a local licensed slaugherhouse, some of these horses would go there... and likely they'd have gone there sooner, so suffered less before they ended up where they ended up anyway. in addition, many of these unwanted horses might never have been bred in the first place, as the fear of slaugherhouse destinations might slow down some of the rediculous backyard breeding that goes on by starry-eyed and short-sighted people who just love baby horses.

 

[shadowpaints]

I forgot about this thread.

i am one of the weird ones that agree that slaughter houses for horses are needed BUT
i called this guy and basicly, he got the horses and got tired of them. didnt even bother searching for homes... nothing . most of these horses are young and able. he could have loaded em up and took them to the auction yard, instead of advirtising them to kill . i highly doubt many were bought as meat horses. but i could be wrong.
we have several rescues in this area that would have gladly taken these horses on seeing as they are young, sound and able.

i can only hope that the horses have all found good, homes.

 

[CluckyJay]

Well, if he is just trying to get more money out of his livestock than an auction house would give, so what? Horses are livestock; love them, ride them, work them, sell them, give them away, or eat them.

Don't judge someone for trying to make an honest living. He didn't lie in his ad, did he? You have no idea HOW he would put the animals down or even if he ever medicated them. I'd say he would probably do it quickly and humanely.

Unless I have formed some sort of attachment to my horses, I would slaughter them before giving them up to a rescue. Their meat would be excellent for my husband's dogs and my soldier flies which in turn would eventually feed my family or make me money to pay a bill. I can make more money off my maggots than selling a horse, these days.

Of course, I try not to get too attached to my livestock.

 

[The Yakima Kid]

I believe they can be sold for feeding to dogs, cats, and zoo animals. Before everyone becomes overly excited, realize that the general "meat horse" is probably not in the world's best shape.