Help with Araucana Lacing

[The Kooky Kiwi]

Hi Team

Is anyone out there able to offer some guidance on what genes and behaviors are involved for Araucana lacing - specifically the lacing we see on the blues (not lavender).

I'm rather comfortable with the lacing gene combo for sebrights - but my understanding is Ara's are different.

 

[TheOddOneOut]

I won’t be any help. But those are some gorgeous birds!

 

[The Kooky Kiwi]

I won’t be any help. But those are some gorgeous birds!

That's Dad and Daughter. Incidently he's also the dad of that odd chick I've been sharing update pictures of in another thread.

 

[JacinLarkwell]

Blue is self laced, I believe. Not sure what exactly it means besides that all blue birds have lacing

 

[The Kooky Kiwi]

Blue is self laced, I believe. Not sure what exactly it means besides that all blue birds have lacing

OK - I've done some research and reading today (I "should" have been working lol) and here is what I've found:

Lacing
The genes required to form a lace, are primarily dependent upon the genetic base the bird is built on.

So.. Extended Black or Birchen or Wheaten Base (for example) is the information we need to know first.

Then.. We apply the correct recipe of modifying genes necessary to formulate a lace on that identified base. (Breed is irrelevant except to determine the likely base)

Note: The modifying genes such as Columbian, Pattern Gene, Dark Brown and Melanotic do not always have the same effect when placed on the different bases.
Playing with the Kippenjungle site is fantastic for seeing how these genes interact.

Example A
Birchen base (ER/ER) requires Columbian, Dark Brown, Pattern Gene and Melanotic, to form a full lace. (We see this in sebrights)

Example B
Partridge base (e^b/e^b) requires Columbian, Pattern Gene and Melanotic, to form a full lace. (No Dark Brown)
On Partridge Base - If you add the Dark Brown - you get spangling.

Edging
Sources suggest that the Extended Black base tends to produce a black edging to the feather.
It is debated as to whether this edging is simply a natural part of the E base pigment formation, or whether the melanotic gene (Ml) is present and causing the "edging".
It is commonly accepted/assumed/discussed that Araucana (Specifically Black, Blue and Splash color varieties) have this "edging" and not lacing.

Of note: In the forums I was researching, there are people in the US that have (for several years now) been working on introducing proper lacing to the Araucana. They were using Adalusians to bring in the lacing genes discussed above. So it's possible there are now "laced" versions of Araucana available?
They would be rather distinctive. Based on the project pictures offered, their birds have very defined laces. Very pretty imho!

How This Relates To My Birds?
My Ara's have the edging.
I deduce that as long as I do not stray away from the E/E base, then this edging, in variable quality, will persist.

I do not have the time nor the room to do what I'm about to suggest BUT..
I'm having the beginning of an inkling of an idea - to cross breed a sebright with an araucana, then refine back to the bantam type - aiming for fully laced in black / blue / splash colours, crested, and blue egg laying!
How CUTE would that be!?

 

[nicalandia]

Edging
Sources suggest that the Extended Black base tends to produce a black edging to the feather.
It is debated as to whether this edging is simply a natural part of the E base pigment formation, or whether the melanotic gene (Ml) is present and causing the "edging".
It is commonly accepted/assumed/discussed that Araucana (Specifically Black, Blue and Splash color varieties) have this "edging" and not lacing.

What you have is Edging

This is Lacing(E/E, Ml/Ml, Pg/Pg and perhaps Co/Co which have no effect on homozygous extended black)

 

[The Kooky Kiwi]

What you have is Edging

This is Lacing(E/E, Ml/Ml, Pg/Pg and perhaps Co/Co which have no effect on homozygous extended black)

View attachment 2861080

Yeep! That's the concensus
Those Andalusians are lovely birds!!!
I dont' think we have them here in NZ

 

[willchickeneat]

Most common way to get good lacing is to breed Andalusian that has good lacing (not hatchery stock!) into the breed, keep the desired traits of the breed minus out the andulusian characteristics and keep culling any that doesn't meet the SOP. The blue Ameraucana calls for lacing, so in recent years that's what the professional breeders have been doing. Edging is not lacing, what I see is edging. I've seen some blue Orpingtons that have great lacing as well. Rare to see a good lacing on blue Araucanas. Rare to see blue Araucanas period. Best bet in my opinion would be to get a good lacing blue andulusian x black dt Araucana and breed out the andulusian traits, but keep the offspring that have lacing. If you have blue Ameraucanas already that has decent lacing, you could cross it to a black/blue Araucana and keep the offsprings that are tuffed, no muffs/beard, and rumpless. Totally possible after a few generations. I've crossed rumpless x Amercauana and had chicks with no beards/muffs and was rumpless. It's possible.

 

[Chookwagn]

Yeep! That's the concensus
Those Andalusians are lovely birds!!!
I dont' think we have them here in NZ

Yes we can get Andalusians in NZ I'm 95% sure

 

[DarJones]

The blue birds shown above are very pretty, but do not show the pattern gene. I don't know of any form of "lacing" that does not have Pattern, Melanotic, and Columbian in one form or another. Qualified exception that double lacing skips Columbian.

Lots of people would love to see a sebright laying blue eggs. It would be a lot easier to achieve by starting with a laced blue egg layer.

My memory says Keith Bramwell while at UARK had blue egg laying Andalusians about 10 years ago.