Help with Dutch coloring please!

Discussion in 'General breed discussions & FAQ' started by Mary Of Exeter, Sep 26, 2009.

  1. Mary Of Exeter

    Mary Of Exeter Songster

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    Another question (sorry I'm so full of them!)...or rather, a thought. Looking through more pictures. I've been calling him a gold duckwing before I asked. He does look a lot like those. The rooster in front of him looks like a silver duckwing too, right? Even if the Dutch is only split for it, he looks mostly like that so I guess I'll stick with the name. If anyone asks I could always tell them that he isn't completely gold duckwing. But for now I just need a simple color name to call him! [​IMG]
     
  2. Henk69

    Henk69 Songster

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    O no, don't do that.
    They are called "golden", but those are in fact silver (which is dominant) with gold leaking just a little. A genetical gold duckwing is in fact the wildtype black breasted red coloring, or lightbrown in dutch.
    So golden is a stupid name.
     
  3. Pathfinders

    Pathfinders Crowing

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  4. Krys109uk

    Krys109uk Songster

    Here in the US we call that color Cream Light Brown. They are generally igig (although birds purchased from hatchery sources could have any number of genes in them.)

    Technically, I think only ig/ig birds would be considered cream light brown (US name) because het S/s+ doesn't breed true. Birds which are genetically S/s+ would be golden duckwing.​
     
  5. Henk69

    Henk69 Songster

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    genetically they are het silver. Phenotypically they are the same as CLB's
     
  6. Pathfinders

    Pathfinders Crowing

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    Quote:Technically, I think only ig/ig birds would be considered cream light brown (US name) because het S/s+ doesn't breed true. Birds which are genetically S/s+ would be golden duckwing.

    Well yes, that's what I meant. I was trying to be polite to those who have purchased CLBs from hatcheries which may be crossed with OEG.

    I should have said: "Purebred Cream Light Browns here in the US all are igig."

    [​IMG]
     
  7. Mary Of Exeter

    Mary Of Exeter Songster

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    So what I'm gathering is my bird looks to be a golden duckwing? Or wait, no, because I see you guys said he was only split for it...right? I think I just confused myself further -facepalm-
    Is there a difference between Gold duckwing and Golden duckwing then? I probably sound real stupid but when I said I didn't know anything about chicken genetics, I meant it. I have yet to wander around and find out what's dom. and rec. and how different combos appear.

    I need to do some studying on chicken genetics. I'm alright a pigeon genetics nerd so I might as well broaden the nerdiness [​IMG]
     
  8. Krys109uk

    Krys109uk Songster

    Try these sites Henk made. They're really good.

    http://kippenjungle.nl/basisEN.htm

    http://kippenjungle.nl/Overzicht.htm#kipcalculator

    Gold duckwing is often called black breasted red in US. It has the wild type sex linked gold gene (s+).
    Golden duckwing is the heterozygote of sex linked gold (s+) with it's allele silver (S) the males being (S/s+) there is no true female equivalent.
    Silver duckwing has all gold parts replaced by silver (S).

    Good luck.....genetics is addictive. [​IMG]
     
  9. Henk69

    Henk69 Songster

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    Quote:There is also a pigeon calculator, if it is the genetics calculator you have to practice with. Could I bother you for your knowledge of the many pied genes in pigeons?
     
  10. Pathfinders

    Pathfinders Crowing

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    Quote:If you're in the US (which is seems you are), and your bird was purchased from a hatchery, you can call it a Cream Light Brown. But genetically, since it was likely crossed with OEG, there's no way to be sure what it is.

    This doesn't have to get all complicated. There are no Golden Duckwing Dutch in the US. Are you wanting to show it? If so, just call it a CLB. Just be aware that it's not a purebred Dutch. Depending on what other Dutch are at a show, you may or may not do well with it (and depending on how well the judge knows Dutch, of course.)

    You can even breed Dutch purchased from hatcheries, but be aware that their type will not look the same as those from breeders.

    Dutch crossed with OEGs may have some or all of the following type issues:

    - Color may not be correct (as you have found)
    - the stance of the bird will likely not be correct, they'll stand too far forward
    - their legs will be longer than the standard calls for for Dutch
    - their ear lobes may have red in them (the standard calls for pure white)
    - their legs may not be slate, but light, and slate is what the standard calls for
    - their tail angle may be higher than is called for
    - the area between the top and bottom of their saddle may be pinched, in Dutch you want this to be long and generous
    - the curve along their backs may resemble a V, what you want it to look like is a U (imagine being able to nestle a tennis ball along their backs, that's the curve you want.)
    - they won't be "cobby", which is where a Dutch bird will stand with his chest out and head back. OEGs tend to stand with head out and chest in.

    This is what I can come up with off the top of my head before my first cup of coffee. [​IMG]

    The bottom line here is, if you're interested in breeding and showing purebred Dutch and doing well at shows, you need to get some from a breeder. If you're interested in working with cute little banties, then you can certainly keep the bird you have, and you might be able to show him in county fairs and do fine. It's all a matter of degree.

    I know of at least one breeder of purebred Dutch in NC, let me know if you'd like her contact info.

    Cheers,
     

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