Hen not accepting the pullets

[PhenixJiRa]

Hi again!

Curious on the success rate of others with a similar situation. I apologize for the wordiness.

I have 4 hens (2 yrs old) and have been integrating 5 pullets for a a little over 3 weeks (started at 14 weeks old). I kept them separated during the day in a side-by-side pen and let them out in the yard together. For about a week now, they have been mingling with some difficulty but mostly okay.

One hen in particular (Phoenix) is having a difficult time and it's getting worse (she is very aggressive to the pullets). Sunday I put her in the extra coop in the late afternoon for roughly 24 hours (over night).

When I let her out yesterday afternoon she ran frantically to her hen-friends who were in the yard. About ten minutes later she ran to the run where the pullets were doing their thing. When I let her in to see what would happen, she immediately went after them. I then let them all out in the yard and things were okay because there was a lot of space. That night, they all slept in the same coop as per usual (but I must help manage it).

Every morning during the integration, I usually let the hens into the yard while the pullets do their thing in the run. Then, a short while later, I put the hens back in and let things happen. Usually the pullets end up on perches trying to get away from the hens but it's mainly Phoenix that they fear.

This morning everyone was preening and Phoenix looked up at the pullets, jumped on a perch to another perch and started going after them. She's gone from chasing them on the ground to hunting them down on perches.

It seems worse in person than here in writing but I'm worried I'll end up with wigged out chickens that could lead to other issues.

Sooooo... I'm trying to find out what the success rate is of a hen who is at the BOTTOM of the current pecking order accepting new additions to the flock that she seemingly perceives as a threat to her position.

I'm not even sure if separating her will make a difference since she's already at the bottom and the new ladies are not showing signs of establishing their own pecking order yet... hence they are frightened all the time. It could be another 3 weeks before the pullets start fighting back. And the way she's acting, she might only react positively to chickens above her.

Perhaps she needs to be part of a smaller flock (2-4) like she has been? I can't keep her in her own coop alone forever (she doesn't like it). She lays a large egg 5-6 times a week so I hate to lose her but I also don't want the whole flock suffering due to her issues either.

 

[aart]

Sooooo... I'm trying to find out what the success rate is of a hen who is at the BOTTOM of the current pecking order accepting new additions to the flock that she seemingly perceives as a threat to her position.

It's typical behavior and should subside with time, but it may take quite awhile, likely until the youngers are all laying.
Having lots of space and places to 'hide' can help ease the pain and injuries.
This is why I like to integrate chicks very young, while still observing the basics.


https://www.backyardchickens.com/articles/integrating-new-birds-at-4-weeks-old.72603/
Integration Basics:
It's all about territory and resources(space/food/water).
Existing birds will almost always attack new ones to defend their resources.
Understanding chicken behaviors is essential to integrating new birds into your flock.

Confine new birds within sight but physically segregated from older/existing birds for several weeks, so they can see and get used to each other but not physically interact.

In adjacent runs, spread scratch grains along the dividing mesh, best if mesh is just big enough for birds to stick their head thru, so they get used to eating together.

The more space, the better. Birds will peck to establish dominance, the pecked bird needs space to get away. As long as there's no copious blood drawn and/or new bird is not trapped/pinned down and beaten unmercilessly, let them work it out. Every time you interfere or remove new birds, they'll have to start the pecking order thing all over again.

Multiple feed/water stations. Dominance issues are most often carried out over sustenance, more stations lessens the frequency of that issue.

Places for the new birds to hide 'out of line of sight'(but not a dead end trap) and/or up and away from any bully birds. Roosts, pallets or boards leaned up against walls or up on concrete blocks, old chairs tables, branches, logs, stumps out in the run can really help. Lots of diversion and places to 'hide' instead of bare wide open run.

Good ideas for hiding places:
https://www.backyardchickens.com/threads/a-cluttered-run.1323792/

 

[LaurenRitz]

I had one that hated the chicks. And yes, she was bottom of the pecking order. She would chase them outside the coop, but that wasn't a concern. The chicks could get away. But once in the coop for the night she would herd them all into a corner and peck them mercilessly, using her wings to block them in. If one escaped, she'd let the others go and focus on that one.

I ended up giving her away because the others were starting to copy her behavior. I can't allow that kind of bullying if I intend to make this a breeding group. Normal pecking order stuff is no problem, but this isn't "normal."

 

[PhenixJiRa]

It's typical behavior and should subside with time, but it may take quite awhile, likely until the youngers are all laying.
Having lots of space and places to 'hide' can help ease the pain and injuries.
This is why I like to integrate chicks very young, while still observing the basics.


https://www.backyardchickens.com/articles/integrating-new-birds-at-4-weeks-old.72603/
Integration Basics:
It's all about territory and resources(space/food/water).
Existing birds will almost always attack new ones to defend their resources.
Understanding chicken behaviors is essential to integrating new birds into your flock.

Confine new birds within sight but physically segregated from older/existing birds for several weeks, so they can see and get used to each other but not physically interact.

In adjacent runs, spread scratch grains along the dividing mesh, best if mesh is just big enough for birds to stick their head thru, so they get used to eating together.

The more space, the better. Birds will peck to establish dominance, the pecked bird needs space to get away. As long as there's no copious blood drawn and/or new bird is not trapped/pinned down and beaten unmercilessly, let them work it out. Every time you interfere or remove new birds, they'll have to start the pecking order thing all over again.

Multiple feed/water stations. Dominance issues are most often carried out over sustenance, more stations lessens the frequency of that issue.

Places for the new birds to hide 'out of line of sight'(but not a dead end trap) and/or up and away from any bully birds. Roosts, pallets or boards leaned up against walls or up on concrete blocks, old chairs tables, branches, logs, stumps out in the run can really help. Lots of diversion and places to 'hide' instead of bare wide open run.

Good ideas for hiding places:
https://www.backyardchickens.com/threads/a-cluttered-run.1323792/

Two of my 5 pullets are Blue Gem and already started laying at 16 weeks so I can't separate them anymore due to needing the nesting boxes. Once I know certain ones have laid their eggs, I could separate for a short while due to how my pen is set up.

At this point, hiding places don't help because they are roughly the same size as the hens. There are several perches and that does help! It's just this one hen that's jumping up to make a point of how she feels.

Currently, she's in the extra coop/run and someone said to either a) put her in with the others and let things be or b) separate her for a week not allowing her to see the others at all. Option B is harder based on the fact the coops aren't that far apart and I let them out during the day.

I'll figure it out as I go but it's nice to see what others have done.

 

[PhenixJiRa]

I had one that hated the chicks. And yes, she was bottom of the pecking order. She would chase them outside the coop, but that wasn't a concern. The chicks could get away. But once in the coop for the night she would herd them all into a corner and peck them mercilessly, using her wings to block them in. If one escaped, she'd let the others go and focus on that one.

I ended up giving her away because the others were starting to copy her behavior. I can't allow that kind of bullying if I intend to make this a breeding group. Normal pecking order stuff is no problem, but this isn't "normal."

I worry about that for sure. The others have knocked the pullets off the perch at night but once they can't see, that stops. The funny thing is that the hen at the top of the pecking order doesn't search them out but will peck at them if they get too close.

This new behavior of searching them out is not good and I also fear the others will learn that's the way to act. That's not what I want.

Someone told me to separate her for a week... I might try that and see what happens. Maybe the pullets will start establishing themselves a bit more... they don't seem all that interested in it yet... they just want to be friends lol!

 

[LaurenRitz]

When I separated the trouble hen, the others went back to acting normal. I didn't try to isolate her completely, just a large cage with her own food and water. The others could see her, and those that were used to perching with her at night kept trying to roost on top of the cage.

I don't see why you can't leave her in the other coop.

 

[PhenixJiRa]

When I separated the trouble hen, the others went back to acting normal. I didn't try to isolate her completely, just a large cage with her own food and water. The others could see her, and those that were used to perching with her at night kept trying to roost on top of the cage.

I don't see why you can't leave her in the other coop.

I think I will keep her in the other coop for a time (few days, week, etc). Someone told me not to allow her to even see the other chickens for that time but that's pretty much impossible. They can't see each other when in side their different coops but I let them out at least once a day and the hens will wander over there and investigate so she will see them. I agree with the idea of not letting them out together but I can't put her any place where they can't see each other at all.