Hens becoming sick while taking antibiotics.

[pipin]

Hi (again!)!

We're on day three of treating our flock with tetracycline for a respiratory issue. It's being administered through their water sources. I'm worried something is going wrong with the antibiotics.

One of our boys kills and tries to eat sparrows. We think he must have caught something from them and spread it through the flock as they all sleep together in a big pile and share food/water. I've completely cleaned out their sleeping area, switch their water daily and they're eating a good blend of food including some additional protein. It was very hot yesterday but has cooled down a bit today (so, I imagine they're a bit stressed.) Some are also in the middle of a moult (we couldn't put off treating though).

Symptoms include sneezing, coughing, heavy breathing and a little bit of discharge/saliva. They generally eat, drink and do usual chicken things. I only noticed patient zero being lethargic one night when I caught him sleeping by himself - he was a little puffy and fluffed but seemed to perk up the next day (back to his normal sneezing/coughing self but active).

However, whereas some of them seem to be getting better, some seem to be getting worse. Two hens presented symptoms yesterday; one is still active despite her cough but the other is slow, laying down and breathing heavily. Today, I found another hen sitting quietly by herself, fluffed up and with her eyes closed. She was breathing fine and wasn't sneezing - she put up a big fight when I grabbed her but I was able to check her crop and get a glimpse at her vent. She laid an egg yesterday (as far as I know) and I didn't see/feel anything suspect on her body.

Is this at all normal? Could they be showing symptoms even though they're undergoing treatment because they were already sick?

I plan on checking all their crops and vents tonight on the roost and in the morning to ensure they're emptying and that nobody has a nasty butt.

 

[Pyxis]

It could be a couple things going on. The first could be that the dosage being given isn't actually high enough. The second is that whatever they have isn't susceptible to tetracycline. It could be a virus, or a bacteria that's not effected by tetracycline. Or thirdly, it could be that it's actually being caused by something environmental, like too much ammonia build up in the coop (sounds like you just cleaned it, though, so probably not), or cedar bedding, etc.

 

[pipin]

It could be a couple things going on. The first could be that the dosage being given isn't actually high enough. The second is that whatever they have isn't susceptible to tetracycline. It could be a virus, or a bacteria that's not effected by tetracycline. Or thirdly, it could be that it's actually being caused by something environmental, like too much ammonia build up in the coop (sounds like you just cleaned it, though, so probably not), or cedar bedding, etc.

I considered dosage so I think I'll spend some extra time preparing the next batch and make sure it's perfect. I also thought that it might be viral as well, which puts me in a pickle! If it is, I'm sure the antibiotics aren't helping but if it isn't and I suddenly stop giving them...well, not good either!

Our vet suggested tetracycline as a 'front line' treatment but now I'm thinking it may be worth taking the sickest lady in and having her examined in person. Patient Zero seems to be about 90% recovered since we started, but that could also be a coincidence - first sick, first to recover.

Thank you though! You got me thinking about their environment. I'm going to do a big sweep of the yard and see if there's anything suspect that they might have gotten into that I didn't think of - mould, maybe?

 

[Pyxis]

I considered dosage so I think I'll spend some extra time preparing the next batch and make sure it's perfect. I also thought that it might be viral as well, which puts me in a pickle! If it is, I'm sure the antibiotics aren't helping but if it isn't and I suddenly stop giving them...well, not good either!

Our vet suggested tetracycline as a 'front line' treatment but now I'm thinking it may be worth taking the sickest lady in and having her examined in person. Patient Zero seems to be about 90% recovered since we started, but that could also be a coincidence - first sick, first to recover.

Thank you though! You got me thinking about their environment. I'm going to do a big sweep of the yard and see if there's anything suspect that they might have gotten into that I didn't think of - mould, maybe?

Mold, or maybe fungus - there is a fungus that can cause respiratory disease called Aspergillis, and the resulting disease is called Aspergillosis. It isn't treatable with an antibiotic and would need an antifungal. Though I'm not sure how likely it would be that your whole flock would contract it at once.

 

[Eggcessive]

What have been the symptoms you have seen. Several of the common respiratory diseases are from viruses, and those would have to run their course over time. Infectious bronchitis, ILT, and a few others are some. Bacterial or mycoplasma diseases, such as MG or coryza may respond to antibiotics. MG responds to tetracyclines, tylosin, tiamulin, and baytril. Coryza is usually treated with sulfa antibiotics. Aspergillosis from mold fungus is treated by removing the mold from the environment.

Do your chickens have a roost to sleep on? I would make sure that your coop is dry and has no ammonia odor or a lot of dust, and that there is end to wnd ventilation over head. We can help with dosages on the tetracycline if you tell us the brand. Usually 400 mg to 800mg of tetracycline for each gallon of water is used for treatment of MG. They have to drink enough of it to get the right dose. Making a pan of chicken feed made wet with medicated water and a little plain yogurt or egg may get them to take more.

Here is a good link to read about common respiratory diseases above:
http://edis.ifas.ufl.edu/ps044

 

[pipin]

What have been the symptoms you have seen. Several of the common respiratory diseases are from viruses, and those would have to run their course over time. Infectious bronchitis, ILT, and a few others are some. Bacterial or mycoplasma diseases, such as MG or coryza may respond to antibiotics. MG responds to tetracyclines, tylosin, tiamulin, and baytril. Coryza is usually treated with sulfa antibiotics. Aspergillosis from mold fungus is treated by removing the mold from the environment.

Do your chickens have a roost to sleep on? I would make sure that your coop is dry and has no ammonia odor or a lot of dust, and that there is end to wnd ventilation over head. We can help with dosages on the tetracycline if you tell us the brand. Usually 400 mg to 800mg of tetracycline for each gallon of water is used for treatment of MG. They have to drink enough of it to get the right dose. Making a pan of chicken feed made wet with medicated water and a little plain yogurt or egg may get them to take more.

Here is a good link to read about common respiratory diseases above:
http://edis.ifas.ufl.edu/ps044

Thank you for the response! And sorry for the delay in replying!

Our older hens all sleep on a roost whereas our younger one's still sleep in a big pile in the garden (no matter how hard we try to move them!). Both have dirt/straw floors so I've scrubbed clean the roost and have been raking out the floor/replacing straw daily. Lots of ventilation and we've had no rain at all so no moisture. I tried to move the younger birds last night (tried to isolate one particular pullet) but they were having none of it - lots of screaming, flapping and trying to break out of their cages. So didn't think the stress was worth it since I can keep on top of cleaning!

We only have Vetafarm Triple C at the moment (https://vetafarm.com.au/product/triple-c-2/) which is 100mg Chlortetracycline hydrochloride. It has a 5g scoop that comes with it and I've been putting 3 scoops per 3 litres of water based on their suggestions. I'm guessing that would only be 300mg so...I probably need to put in 5 scoops/500mg to be safe?

Some are looking better again today.

Daisy, who was rattling and gasping all day yesterday and the day before, is perky and came over to eat from my hand this morning. She's only got a little bit of a rasp to her breath. Another pullet, Lavender, is all puffy on one side of her face though - I couldn't see her eye last night but I could see it this morning. It's watery but she's still eating and drinking and seems less scared today. Two of our layers are gurgly/sneezing but still laying? One laid a soft-shelled egg but the other is laying normal eggs.

One older hen (18 months or so) is fairly poorly. She's been fluffed up, eyes closed since yesterday midday and still is today. She walks very slowly and seems to fall asleep every few minutes - she can open her eyes, just doesn't want to. I found some dry yellow discharge from one nostril. I've been syringing water/antibiotics and vitamins to her every few hours and keeping her isolated at night somewhere warm. She's the one I'm very worried about - she's the only one who has been 'out of it' even though she isn't rattling or coughing.

We have 15 in our flock. I think 12/15 have been sick/getting sick in the last few days. We have one rooster who hasn't shown any symptoms, and two hens who are still going really well. I have a feeling one of those hens might actually be the cause - she was a stray we adopted several months ago so even after quarantine, she might have been a carrier. It might explain why she seems totally healthy too.

(Sorry for the huge ramble!)

 

[Eggcessive]

The dosage may not be the same with tetracycline and chlortetracycline, so I would follow what is on your label for now.

Okay here is some dosage information which says that 400 to 800 mg per gallon can be used:
https://www.drugs.com/vet/ctc-soluble-powder.html

https://www.jedds.com/shop/triple-c-vetafarm/

 

[pipin]

Just an update!

Those with 'puffy faces' are looking much more normal today! One of the hens that wasn't sick yesterday is coming down with it though - I checked her on the roost last night and she had a bubbly eye and some discharge in one nostril. However, she's not acting too badly - just a bit slow but still eating and drinking. She'll get some extra TLC tonight.

However, our sickest is hopefully on the up as well! I was really convinced she wasn't going to survive the night but she managed to get up onto the roost before I could get to her so I let her sleep outside since it was a warm night. Syringe fed her some antibiotics, vitamins and some egg/oats (she didn't take much but I figured even a few calories is better than none!). Still slow and drowsy today - I tried to isolate her and she just panicked so, she's back with the flock. Opening her eyes more and walking a bit more too, I even caught her sunbaking and she ate three or so blueberries by herself. She's drinking more water by herself too. I'll continue feeding/watering her tonight but I'm hoping she'll be more perky tomorrow!

We've decided to close our flock completely after this bout though. It came out of nowhere and because we can't diagnose it 100%, we'll just avoid adding/removing any birds until we're in a spot where we can get 100% assurance. We unfortunately have about 20 stray chickens within 500m of our boundary fence though so, we can't be sure where whatever this is has come from.

 

[Eggcessive]

Glad that you are seeing some recovering. This must have been a serious strain of mycoplasma (MG,) but it could be MG plus another secondary disease. ILT, infectious bronchitis, and coryza are some of the other common ones in addition to other viruses. It can be common for symptoms of a chronic disease to come back when they are stressed during molts or extreme cold weather. Here is a good link about common diseases and symptoms:
http://edis.ifas.ufl.edu/ps044

You are wise to close your flock to hatching or to adding new birds. The whole flock will be carriers for their whole lives. The way to stop the illness, is to let all of these chickens eventually die off, and then clean facilities and wait for a couple of months to add new healthy baby chicks. The stray chickens will cause a problem later if they are still around. That could be where the disease(s) came from.