Hens refusing to lay in private boxes that are adjacent, insisting on laying under growths of ivy?

[sophiehatter1057]

I'm sort of at my wits' end. I have 9 pullets, who started laying a couple of weeks ago.

Our setup is: 10x10 coop with two elevated nesting boxes. I'm using hard sided cat carriers filled with pine shavings, covered with a black rubber mat to make it dark.

Our 20x30 coop was destroyed in a storm, and I don't have the means to fix it now, so this small, weak coop is surrounded by electrified netting. During the day, they free range in the yard.

4 were consistently laying in the boxes in the coop. Then things slowed down. Then I found our bottom-of-the order hen under a patch of ivy, and when I picked her up, eggs from 4 different hens were there.

I cleared out all the ivy, and cut out the brush.

I've read of confining them to the coop until they all lay, which doesn't work here because (1) it's too small and (2) they lay all hours of the day. My experiment with confinement just led to stress.

I filled the nesting boxes with fake eggs and carried the culprits there to show them. It worked with one (she almost immediately went in and laid) but not the others.


The others keep wandering around looking for the old nest, crying. They get super distressed when I try to distract them. I got one near the boxes while our dominant hen was laying hoping it would "inspire" her. The dominant hen made a small annoyed squawk, the other hen flew off. Are chickens opposed to laying at the same time?

Is this likely to resolve on its own?

 

[azygous]

New layers often take time to learn the habit of laying in a nest box. Instead they cling to their own instinct to find their own spot to lay. Usually, it's just one or two that are slow to learn. It requires individual attention with these slow learners. Even when confined to the coop during this period, some pullets still insist on laying outside the box.

If you can identify the individuals, continue to monitor as best you can where they are trying to lay and move them to a nest each time you find them trying to lay on the ground outside the nest. It shouldn't take but a few days of this if you catch them early.

It will be an intense effort on your part, but if you're vigilant and consistent, you can solve this problem in just a few days.

 

[sophiehatter1057]

New layers often take time to learn the habit of laying in a nest box. Instead they cling to their own instinct to find their own spot to lay. Usually, it's just one or two that are slow to learn. It requires individual attention with these slow learners. Even when confined to the coop during this period, some pullets still insist on laying outside the box.

If you can identify the individuals, continue to monitor as best you can where they are trying to lay and move them to a nest each time you find them trying to lay on the ground outside the nest. It shouldn't take but a few days of this if you catch them early.

It will be an intense effort on your part, but if you're vigilant and consistent, you can solve this problem in just a few days.

Thank you! This is what I've been doing and was worried that I was creating "box trauma" or something, so I'm grateful for the encouragement. I'm going to keep moving the culprits back every time I catch them doing it.

 

[Ridgerunner]

I have 9 pullets,

Our setup is: 10x10 coop with two elevated nesting boxes.

I've read of confining them to the coop until they all lay, which doesn't work here because (1) it's too small and (2) they lay all hours of the day.

A 10 x 10 coop is plenty big enough to house 9 pullets.

My experiment with confinement just led to stress.

Your stress or theirs? Who is the adult in this, you or them? I'd leave them locked in the new coop for several days to try to train them to lay in there. It may not be in your nests but it should be in the coop.

I cleared out all the ivy, and cut out the brush.

This is exactly what you should have done.

Is this likely to resolve on its own?

Anything is possible but I'd try to resolve it now. I see no reason for it to change on its own.

This kind of stuff isn't unusual when they are moved to a new coop. That storm was very unfortunate. If it were just one hen doing this I'd suggest something different but I think you have the ability to resolve this fairly easily and quickly. Having a larger coop really gives you flexibility to do this. A teeny tiny minimum sized coop would not be as easy to work with. Good luck!

 

[sophiehatter1057]

A 10 x 10 coop is plenty big enough to house 9 pullets.


Your stress or theirs? Who is the adult in this, you or them? I'd leave them locked in the new coop for several days to try to train them to lay in there. It may not be in your nests but it should be in the coop.


This is exactly what you should have done.


Anything is possible but I'd try to resolve it now. I see no reason for it to change on its own.

This kind of stuff isn't unusual when they are moved to a new coop. That storm was very unfortunate. If it were just one hen doing this I'd suggest something different but I think you have the ability to resolve this fairly easily and quickly. Having a larger coop really gives you flexibility to do this. A teeny tiny minimum sized coop would not be as easy to work with. Good luck!

Thank you. By stress I mean: the chickens were agitated to the point of feather pulling, which doesn't happen when they're allowed to free range. I've already worked hard to eliminate that behavior early on when it first showed up and did not want to enable it again. In terms of who is adult between myself and them, they are pullets (so not yet adult) and I am a full grown adult human.

Everything I have read here indicates that 10x10 is large enough for a coop, *provided that* there is access to a large run. You are saying it is okay to confine them 24/7 to coop only with no run access?

 

[Ridgerunner]

I would expect nine chickens of any size and age already integrated to be OK in a 10 x 10 coop. You do not get guarantees with living animals and behaviors so it might not work, but that is a lot of room. More room per chicken than a lot of people have in a combined coop and run.

the chickens were agitated to the point of feather pulling, which doesn't happen when they're allowed to free range.

What did that feather pulling look like? Was it just one culprit or was it a group activity? Was there any special time this happened? How severe was it? Any fighting involved or just calm relaxed feather pulling?

One time I had a hen grooming a rooster by pulling out his neck feathers. He just sat there while she did it. She was creating a bald spot. I locked him up for several hours and that behavior stopped.

 

[azygous]

I just thought of a good analogy to this subject. Many here have toilet trained a two-year old toddler. Those of you who haven't had this experience, trust me, it can be a challenge as great as dealing with a room full of squirrels.

Toilet training requires constant vigilance. You need to watch for the "signs" and get the child onto the toilet as they are experiencing the physical pressure to do their business and get them there before you have a mess to clean up.

Same with a pullet learning to lay. They also will show "signs", a persistent chattering, then a compulsion to find a secluded spot, then focusing on arranging nesting material, even if it's just sand. The trick is to get to them before they lay the egg and get them into a proper nest box so they associate the urge with the nest box. It will then become their new habit. It only takes two or three days.

A toddler can take up to a year, as it did with one of mine. I'd rather deal with a new layer any day.

 

[sophiehatter1057]

I would expect nine chickens of any size and age already integrated to be OK in a 10 x 10 coop. You do not get guarantees with living animals and behaviors so it might not work, but that is a lot of room. More room per chicken than a lot of people have in a combined coop and run.


What did that feather pulling look like? Was it just one culprit or was it a group activity? Was there any special time this happened? How severe was it? Any fighting involved or just calm relaxed feather pulling?

One time I had a hen grooming a rooster by pulling out his neck feathers. He just sat there while she did it. She was creating a bald spot. I locked him up for several hours and that behavior stopped.

It was the three (of nine) that are not yet laying who were instigating, and there was a lot of squawking and flapping in response.

I had a persistent feather pecker before, and two rounds of pinless peepers seem to have fixed her completely. She is very gentle with the rest of the flock now. I think she had learned it from the cockerels, who have since left.

 

[sophiehatter1057]

I just thought of a good analogy to this subject. Many here have toilet trained a two-year old toddler. Those of you who haven't had this experience, trust me, it can be a challenge as great as dealing with a room full of squirrels.

Toilet training requires constant vigilance. You need to watch for the "signs" and get the child onto the toilet as they are experiencing the physical pressure to do their business and get them there before you have a mess to clean up.

Same with a pullet learning to lay. They also will show "signs", a persistent chattering, then a compulsion to find a secluded spot, then focusing on arranging nesting material, even if it's just sand. The trick is to get to them before they lay the egg and get them into a proper nest box so they associate the urge with the nest box. It will then become their new habit. It only takes two or three days.

A toddler can take up to a year, as it did with one of mine. I'd rather deal with a new layer any day.

This is SUCH a good way to think of it. Watch for the signs, create the association. And I thought those days were long behind me!

 

[Ridgerunner]

It was the three (of nine) that are not yet laying who were instigating, and there was a lot of squawking and flapping in response.

I usually do not suggest locking pullets not yet laying away from the nests in case they start and they learn to lay somewhere other than the nests but in this case I'll make an exception. You have two separate issues. 1 - several pullets not laying in the coop & 2 - three pullets not yet laying that are bullying and feather picking when they are locked in the coop.

Can you leave those six locked in the coop most of the day, until they have laid. You can let them out later in the afternoon. Forcing them to lay in the coop for 3 or 4 days should be enough to retrain them but some are more stubborn than others. Leave the others locked out where they cannot cause any trouble.

I have never seen that type of behavior, pullets that are not laying bullying pullets that are laying. It just sounds wrong. The ones laying should rank higher in the pecking order than the ones not laying. But you are looking at then and I am not. Each chicken has its own personality and each flock its own dynamics.

I do not keep individual chickens, I keep a flock that has changeable members. I'm adding and subtracting all of the time. I want a peaceful flock that does not cause me heartache or a lot of extra work. If I have a chicken that is upsetting the peace of the flock I remove it. Sometimes I try some behavior modification, as you did with those pinless peepers, but if that fails they are gone. Since I eat my cockerels the problem chicken is often a female.

You often read on here that there is no need to keep a bad male as there are plenty of good males out there. To me, the same applies to the females. It is your flock, do as you will.