Heritage Large Fowl - Phase II

[3riverschick]

Hi,
Those of you using higher protein percentages raising your HLF, a question.
I am feeding 22% now and think I need to up the percentages for my Sussex.
Would your recommend starting at 28% and moving to 24% at 7 weeks?
Or starting at 26% and moving to 24% at 7 weeks?
Also, the feed will be for both sexes at the same time. What is the highest % of
calcium that can be fed to the males in an "all flock feed".
Thanks,
Karen

 

[gjensen]

Question, something I'm trying to help a friend with, do you notice that with the early point of lay that you end up with a large sexual dimorphism with the cockerels finishing out much larger than the pullets? The idea being a pullet that starts laying early has to split her calories between growth and laying.

There does appear to be a possibility that a hen's final size can relate to when she comes into lay. I have had a coupe people that I trust make that observation, and I have seen that correlation in a single strain. I have come to the conclusion that balance, like in everything else matters. For some breeds, there can be a too early.

I have also noticed that the tendency seams to be stronger where the strain is oversized. I am a believer that the Standard weights are relevant.

I have read several times where the old Minorca breeders did not want their pullets come into lay as early as Leghorns. They felt that it encouraged smaller birds, and smaller eggs from the hens. Minorca should have a big frame and have time to fill it out. Leghorns being a small bird with a light frame should come into lay earlier. That is why I try to qualify my thoughts with the word appropriate etc.

I don't think a Rock should come into ay as fast as a NH or Delaware. They have bigger frames, and more length. Selecting NHs from Reds for early maturity and early weights naturally led to shorter wider birds.

Some breeds we do not want to lay too early.

Anyone can take it how they want, but I believe these types and weights are for a reason, and matter. They fit different roles, different ideals, and from different times. I think getting to know the breed matters. I think a lot of where we fall short is not having a good feel for what they are. We tend to try to make one size fit all.

 

[Canieldonrad]

To be quite honest I would look into what else is added to the feed besides protein. I've been reading up on feed, and it seems there is more to concern yourself with than just protein. Amino Acids being a big one.

These are what I start with. And they are a tad on the hot side when it comes to protein.

http://www.buckleybrosinc.com/images/E0221901/BB_TURKEY_STARTER_IS.pdf

http://www.buckleybrosinc.com/images/E0221901/BB_SHOW_POULTRY_new.pdf

 

[Vamvakas]

Hi,
Those of you using higher protein percentages raising your HLF, a question.
I am feeding 22% now and think I need to up the percentages for my Sussex.
Would your recommend starting at 28% and moving to 24% at 7 weeks?
Or starting at 26% and moving to 24% at 7 weeks?
Also, the feed will be for both sexes at the same time. What is the highest % of
calcium that can be fed to the males in an "all flock feed".
Thanks,
Karen

Umm, Heritage LF means slow growth... If you have good line they will get big.

 

[hellbender]

Just quick input. The quality and source of protein is of far greater importance than quantity. No discussion on the matter for me. Make of what I post what you will.

 

[RedRidge]

Just quick input.  The quality and source of protein is of far greater importance than quantity. No discussion on the matter for me.  Make of what I post what you will.

Amen! Animal protein is critical and most commercial feeds are way low in animal protein. You simply can't put enough fish meal in a feed to Hey enough animal protein without fishy eggs, this is why supplementing with BSF or some other animal protein is critical. For chicks you can feed a lot of fish meal with no side effects, but who can afford to feed that much.
Soy is not an animal protein (add is garbage anyway imo).
I love field peas but again, not animal protein.
Balance with animal protein and "ridiculously high protein" is unnecessary.

 

[unkadan]

bovine "bone meal" is a common source for animal protein in game bird feeds here in WI,,,,(land of CWD controls that don't allow other mammal inputs)

 

[Arielle]

Quote: Put her with your second choice rooster for her. THen check for fertility.

 

[Arielle]

A lot of people raise their birds for show here. And I am one of them. But I can't help but notice the weight gain on my Buckeyes. I had a roasted Cockerel tonight, butchered around 10½ weeks of age. And the size of the bird's carcass prompted me to gauge the size of his more fortunate siblings. What I saw was quite surprising, in a very good way(or weigh). At 11½ weeks my cockerels were around 4lbs(one reaching 4¼). Which is a great size for a 3 person meal, shared with my father and my mother.

I'm somewhat curious as the size and age you all begin to cull.

Refresh my memory-- how long have you had this line? If recently, from which breeder??

 

[Arielle]

Hi,
Those of you using higher protein percentages raising your HLF, a question.
I am feeding 22% now and think I need to up the percentages for my Sussex.
Would your recommend starting at 28% and moving to 24% at 7 weeks?
Or starting at 26% and moving to 24% at 7 weeks?
Also, the feed will be for both sexes at the same time. What is the highest % of
calcium that can be fed to the males in an "all flock feed".
Thanks,
Karen

Karen, I have started wondering this as a line is selected for more and more meat qualityies and faster growth. IMO a higher protein would support that growth, however I am a big fan of micronutrients too to support health overall. The macronutrients are listed on the bag; the micronutrients are not.

YOu might need to run a trial and see what works for you. In reality many trials.

Love your thinking.