Heritage Large Fowl - Phase II

[3riverschick]

100- 120bs taste like crap, those are old lambs that are gamey.. Looking for lambs about 30 - 40 lbs... That's what lamb farmers need to look at.

Yeah but it seems a bit tough to wait all that time for the lamb, do the lambing
keep them alive and thriving and then sell at 30-40 lbs. Not much return for effort there. Maybe if one was only raising for themselves.
Karen

 

[Lacy Blues]

I had stubs show up in my birds several years ago. What I did was pluck them all and mark the birds. I gave them a few weeks and checked again. The ones that had grown them back got a one way ticket to the freezer. The ones that did not grow back were used.

I haven't seen stubs since then. I haven't checked super close though so maybe its time to do an inspection.

 

[brahmabreeder]

24 Black Java chicks hatched here since January. Was aiming for 40 chicks. Had to stop earlier than planned because it got too hot. The last four chicks are almost feathered out and I will move them out of the brooder before it hits 90 degrees later this week. Hoping for a few decent pullets so I can start culling hens. Unfortunately most of these chicks look like cockerels. Again. Sigh.

The only pullet from my fall broody hatch just laid her first egg at 5 months old. She is not destined for the breeding flock but she'll be just fine as a layer.

Sarah

90

! I'd be happy with sixty! Yesterday it was 20 some odd degrees and snowing

.

 

[RedRidge]

Hmmm... doesn't sound like a rip off to me, sounds like a good deal. My meat lambs sell for $2.25/lb live weight except for Easter lambs which sell for $2.50/lb. They average 100-120 lbs when they go to slaughter. Except for the Easter lambs they are grass fed and reach slaughter weight at 5 months. The Easter lambs born in the fall grow slower due to poorer quality forage over the winter and must be supplemented, thus the slightly higher price. I have not increased my beef and lamb prices in 5 years and even when I was producing 300 lambs a year I had a waiting list - i sell to private individuals only, no wholesale. Trust me, I do not make a killing, just barely a living.

100- 120bs taste like crap, those are old lambs that are gamey.. Looking for lambs about 30 - 40 lbs...  That's what lamb farmers need to look at.

I'm not sure why you would think that. My average 60 day weaning weight is 54.47 lbs. They are still babies at that weight and still nursing.

They reach 100-120 lbs at 5 months of age. That is not old. Technically they are classified as "lamb" until 12 months old, but the oldest I ever sell mine is 5-6 months old. I need them off of my head as soon as possible.

It's not the size that makes for ideal flavor, it is the age and finish.

 

[RedRidge]

 
100- 120bs taste like crap, those are old lambs that are gamey.. Looking for lambs about 30 - 40 lbs...  That's what lamb farmers need to look at.

Yeah but it seems a bit tough to wait all that time for the lamb, do the lambing
keep them alive and thriving and then sell at 30-40 lbs. Not much return for effort there. Maybe if one was only raising for themselves.
 Karen

Again. .. a 30-40 lb lamb is only a month old. If folks are getting gamey at 100-120 lbs then they are not breeding and raising them for fast growth. They should only be 5 months old at that weight. I cull any ewe who does not wean twins at 60 days old that are at least 50 lbs each.
Whoever you guys are buying your meat from has no clue how to properly breed and raise sheep.

 

[Arielle]

Quote: At 30-40 #--lamb is like veal and all the more reason to pay more per pound.

I grew up eating fine foods-- now that I am paying the bills I'm far more practical. Butchering at 30-40 pounds doesn't make good use of the spring- summer-fall pasture. And I would need to get the same price as my #100+ to be close to costs.

 

[thedragonlady]

Now you know that you have had to hatch in numbers before, LOL. If I hatched 20 Catalanas, I might just have to kill them all and have gotten no where.

I will say, you deserve a reward for spreading birds around. You and your birds have quite the following. I am seeing them everywhere. Coast to coast.

The most birds I have hatched in a year is 75, due to the fact that most of them were cockerels. Soup was plentiful that year.You've been here George. How many birds did you see ? Never more than a dozen females. Not only is this a self imposed discipline in only breeding from my best, but it is also to keep the city chicken police happy.

I'm pretty selective as to whom gets my birds. I simply like my birds too much to send them off to egg/chick factory people, who have no interest in really breeding and showing. I'm very pleased that most of my sold birds are now in the hands of serious breeders, who want to show, and a few are at work improving home flocks. I sleep well at night knowing that.

 

[gjensen]

The most birds I have hatched in a year is 75, due to the fact that most of them were cockerels. Soup was plentiful that year.You've been here George. How many birds did you see ? Never more than a dozen females. Not only is this a self imposed discipline in only breeding from my best, but it is also to keep the city chicken police happy.

I'm pretty selective as to whom gets my birds. I simply like my birds too much to send them off to egg/chick factory people, who have no interest in really breeding and showing. I'm very pleased that most of my sold birds are now in the hands of serious breeders, who want to show, and a few are at work improving home flocks. I sleep well at night knowing that.

I was picking at you, based on what some remarks on your old Silkie projects. I should insert smilies.

Guess it goes back to the different situations. Some projects require numbers. If the birds are in good shape, and pretty consistent, it does not take as many. If I will ever have the opportunity to have a respectable flock by my standards, I will have to hatch a lot. One of the hang ups that goes with a very rare and neglected breed.

My Catalanas and your Orpingtons are not even on the same playing field.

I do suspect that in a couple generations, that I will be able to settle down a bit. I am guessing that some of what I culled for last year, I will not have as much to contend with this year. I had some problems that were so bad, that I decided not to tolerate at all. These things eliminated a lot of birds. I went from in the range of 120, and I only have ten females now. Two of which are originals. So I only kept 8 pullets. I also only kept 2 cockerels. All together, I only have 14 birds on my yard now. I do not want to keep too many either.

I liken it to steering an air craft carrier. If you are heading in the right direction, you only have to make minor adjustments along the way. It takes less. If you are heading the wrong way it takes a lot to get it turned around.

There is certainly wisdom in picking a breed that is in good shape, and what some would say worth working with. Bob used to preach that to us newbies all of the time, and I get it. It just so happened to be that I wanted a project of this sort. It is also still in the realm of possibility that this effort will be a bust, and I would have wasted a lot of money, time, and effort.

All of your birds that I have seen out there look good, and do appear to be kept by people that have done well raising them up. Your birds are active and vigorous to. Many of the big birds that I have been around have been clumsy and lazy. That is not the case with your birds.

 

[gjensen]

Good to know on the stubs. Both my cockerals are from a local breeder who shows his birds and does well, they are supposed to be German Line. All of my hens are from Luanne and they are so much better quality than the pullets I got with the local cockerals. I am glad to hear you sometimes don't see the stubs easily. The cockeral with them was my 2nd choice as a breeder. He ripped his wattle badly and had so much blood all over him I gave him a bath and that is when I noticed them and decided not to use him. Pretty darn sure the cockeral I am using is clean but maybe he deserves a bath too None of the cockerals I got from Luanne had stubs and my chosen breeder came in with a white tail feather so I never used him. I will twist Walt's arm for another if I need. An excuse for a road trip to California would be great!

There is a great bunch of people working with Kathy's Dels.and I feel very priviledged to be one of them. Get some for your son, you know you will have to It's not work if you love it!

From my experience, the pure Germans have more stubs than the crossed birds. For whatever reason, the trait was allowed to get established. That is what I am warning against.

I say recessive, because I can take two birds that do not have stubs and get stubs. Also, I can take a bird with stubs and mate it to an unrelated strain that has no stubs and get no stubs at all. I say that I suspect more at play because of the varying degree of stubs that is present.

I only mention it, because some are not obvious and since the trait is floating around, it is something to watch out for. People with the crossed birds are not and have not seen any for a few generations. I do not know what that means, other than originally the trait might not have been as prevalent in the originally imported birds. There was also two strains imported simultaneously by the same person. It is possible that one was a carrier, and the other was not.
The importer lost most (all less one bird, according to him), so the influence of one of these strains was at least more influential in the long run.

That is how I have rationalized it, for right or wrong.

I will probably get the son some Delaware, but will not make too big a deal of it. Let him experience his own and see where it goes. He tends to get attached, so I cannot see hatching a lot. He will get to know them and want to keep them all. LOL.

 

[thedragonlady]

I was picking at you, based on what some remarks on your old Silkie projects. I should insert smilies.

Guess it goes back to the different situations. Some projects require numbers. If the birds are in good shape, and pretty consistent, it does not take as many. If I will ever have the opportunity to have a respectable flock by my standards, I will have to hatch a lot. One of the hang ups that goes with a very rare and neglected breed.

My Catalanas and your Orpingtons are not even on the same playing field.

I do suspect that in a couple generations, that I will be able to settle down a bit. I am guessing that some of what I culled for last year, I will not have as much to contend with this year. I had some problems that were so bad, that I decided not to tolerate at all. These things eliminated a lot of birds. I went from in the range of 120, and I only have ten females now. Two of which are originals. So I only kept 8 pullets. I also only kept 2 cockerels. All together, I only have 14 birds on my yard now. I do not want to keep too many either.

I liken it to steering an air craft carrier. If you are heading in the right direction, you only have to make minor adjustments along the way. It takes less. If you are heading the wrong way it takes a lot to get it turned around.

There is certainly wisdom in picking a breed that is in good shape, and what some would say worth working with. Bob used to preach that to us newbies all of the time, and I get it. It just so happened to be that I wanted a project of this sort. It is also still in the realm of possibility that this effort will be a bust, and I would have wasted a lot of money, time, and effort.

All of your birds that I have seen out there look good, and do appear to be kept by people that have done well raising them up. Your birds are active and vigorous to. Many of the big birds that I have been around have been clumsy and lazy. That is not the case with your birds.

Thanks George. You mentioned my Silkies. The thing I miss most about the Silkies is being able to breed my best ones using AI, and still show them. My Orps are simply too darned big to handle in this way without help, and my husband is adamantly not interested in managing the sex life of a chicken. Due to this I have sent out a lot of good birds, cock birds particularly. With the exception of Monty, males are generally moved on, after I've bred them for a season. This lets me tell buyers what a particular cock bird will throw with my line, and also makes room for the next cockerel down the ladder, to take his place.

The Orps I started with had more than their share of problems. There was every comb fault in the book, uneven coloring, a lack of type uniformity, and some temperament problems.The Buffs were all reasonably good layers though.The only answer was to practice pair breedings to see who was throwing what.Ten chicks from each pair initially, gave me a very good idea of where to go next. I sure didn't want to see 100 of the not so good crosses! Being able to spot the traits I was looking for in chicks was a help. Everyone who owns my birds, and has bred them, has been able to spot those prominent fore chests, and wide, deep bodies in their chicks.The coloring comes in soon, and good combs are easy to spot early too.Breeding some of the extra fluff and cushions out is ongoing, but if it were easy; it wouldn't be much fun.